# Are the majority of gay activist shooting themselves in the foot? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 24, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078 "2013-12-24T14:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/21 "2013-12-24T20:53:23Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Gay people who don’t “act gay” (e.g., conform to stereotypes, or have any sort of same-sex liaison) already have equality, unless you count having to not “act gay” as a form of inequality. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/22 "2013-12-24T21:04:30Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > The question I was trying to get out there was "Wouldn’t we be better off with a more “average gay guy” image than what is predominately being put out there now? > Thanks to **stpauler** ’s input, I see it’s probably the other way around. I guess it takes some extreme showmanship sometimes to to even get noticed. And he’s right, but you’re wrong to say that flamboyant and sexualized images are the predominant ones for gay people. I don’t know if that was ever the case, but it sure isn’t now. What people see now are couples getting married at City Hall, fit guys who dress stylishly, and Glee and Ellen. It’s about as average as it’s going to get. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/23 "2013-12-24T21:36:04Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Ok, my bad. When I wrote the OP, I had just off a 12hr shift. I articulated my thoughts poorly, and the examples I used were lame. > > That said, I still feel the over all jist of the OP was a valid question. Apparently, you still need some more sleep. > [@](#): > > I don’t know all gays everywhere, but I’m pretty damn sure the vast majority of them don’t go around in assless chaps, sashaying about in public places. The question I was trying to get out there was "Wouldn’t we be better off with a more “average gay guy” image than what is predominately being put out there now? No, the vast majority don’t. Not in real life, and not in the media. Let’s talk about a few of the biggest, openly gay celebrities out there. I’ll throw out some names. You find me some pictures of them “sashaying around in assless chaps.” (NB: All chaps, by definition, are assless, so that should make it even easier for you.) [Jim Parsons](http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/jim-parsons.jpg), star of _Big Bang Theory_. [Zachary Quinto](http://www.altfg.com/Stars/s/star-trek-zachary-quinto-1.JPG), the new Mr. Spock. Comedian and television star [Jane Lynch](http://images.buddytv.com/btv_2_-99996044_1_434_593_0_/jane-lynch--misc.jpg). My secret boyfriend, [Neal Patrick Harris.](http://splitsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/neil_patrick_harris.jpg) Least successful closet case ever [Sean Hayes](http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTkyMDg2MTE2Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjk4NjI0MQ@@._V1._SX265_SY400_.jpg). [Ellen Degeneres](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2013/08/ellen_h.jpg), the white lesbian Oprah. REM frontman [Michael Stipe](http://assets.coolhunting.com/coolhunting/mt_asset_cache/assets_c/2010/10/michael-stipe1-thumb-949x806-24106.jpg), seen here in his role as an understudy to Bill Murray in _The Life Aquatic._ Absurdly handsome newscaster [Anderson Cooper](http://nycprowler.com/prowler/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Cooper1.jpg). _Glee_ star and part-time ninja [Chris Colfer](http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnoso28cB71qe014co1_400.png). Space greenhorn [Sean Maher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sean_Maher_by_Gage_Skidmore_2.jpg). Wizard and mutant supervillain [Ian McKellan](http://www.angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ian-mckellen-get-over-it-t-shirt.jpg). That’s ten of the biggest, most visible gay celebrities working today. Let’s see you make your case. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/24 "2013-12-24T21:40:52Z")
That first link reminds me of the kmart commercial with the guys in their boxers. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-RWzd3Q-Qtg/maxresdefault.jpg "`Show Your Joe´ Kmart Commercial Boxer Christmas `Jingle Bells´ || HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RWzd3Q-Qtg) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/25 "2013-12-24T21:45:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Apparently, you still need some more sleep. > > No, the vast majority don’t. Not in real life, and not in the media. Let’s talk about a few of the biggest, openly gay celebrities out there. I’ll throw out some names. You find me some pictures of them “sashaying around in assless chaps.” (NB: All chaps, by definition, are assless, so that should make it even easier for you.) > > [. . . [list redacted] > > That’s ten of the biggest, most visible gay celebrities working today. Let’s see you make your case. Wow. It’s almost as if you can’t tell teh gays from normal people. Sneaky little gays. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/26 "2013-12-24T21:59:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Apparently, you still need some more sleep. > > No, the vast majority don’t. Not in real life, and not in the media. Let’s talk about a few of the biggest, openly gay celebrities out there. I’ll throw out some names. You find me some pictures of them “sashaying around in assless chaps.” (NB: All chaps, by definition, are assless, so that should make it even easier for you.) > > [Jim Parsons](http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/jim-parsons.jpg), star of _Big Bang Theory_. > > [Zachary Quinto](http://www.altfg.com/Stars/s/star-trek-zachary-quinto-1.JPG), the new Mr. Spock. > > Comedian and television star [Jane Lynch](http://images.buddytv.com/btv_2_-99996044_1_434_593_0_/jane-lynch--misc.jpg). > > My secret boyfriend, [Neal Patrick Harris.](http://splitsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/neil_patrick_harris.jpg) > > Least successful closet case ever [Sean Hayes](http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTkyMDg2MTE2Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjk4NjI0MQ@@._V1._SX265_SY400_.jpg). > > [Ellen Degeneres](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2013/08/ellen_h.jpg), the white lesbian Oprah. > > REM frontman [Michael Stipe](http://assets.coolhunting.com/coolhunting/mt_asset_cache/assets_c/2010/10/michael-stipe1-thumb-949x806-24106.jpg), seen here in his role as an understudy to Bill Murray in _The Life Aquatic._ > > Absurdly handsome newscaster [Anderson Cooper](http://nycprowler.com/prowler/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Cooper1.jpg). > > _Glee_ star and part-time ninja [Chris Colfer](http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnoso28cB71qe014co1_400.png). > > Space greenhorn [Sean Maher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sean_Maher_by_Gage_Skidmore_2.jpg). > > Wizard and mutant supervillain [Ian McKellan](http://www.angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ian-mckellen-get-over-it-t-shirt.jpg). > > That’s ten of the biggest, most visible gay celebrities working today. Let’s see you make your case. Uh, not really sure why you’re treating me like the enemy. Is there something in my previous posts, that leaves you with the impression that I’m being disrespectful towards gays? Or is it my mere ignorance that offends you so much you feel the need to scorn me on _a board that is dedicated to fighting said ignorance?_ I’ll respond to the rest of your post, but first, you need to tell me what the fuck it is I’m doing that offends you so. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/27 "2013-12-24T22:04:47Z")
Maybe it’s a generational thing. My gay friends in the eighties were outspoken but a little classier when it came to displays of sexuality. Don’t think I minded public displays of sexuality until I had children and then it was more irritating to me in a “Get a room” sort of way. And anyone who seeks attention by trying deliberately to annoy me loses points. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/28 "2013-12-24T22:14:38Z")
Hey, Log Cabins, 1950 is calling. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/29 "2013-12-24T22:18:14Z")
**Shakes** , I don’t pretend to answer for **Miller** or anyone, but the general thought behind the question is in itself somewhat offensive and has been heard before. Perhaps compare it to “wouldn’t it be a better case for feminism if women stopped being so emotional about everything?” or “there would be less discrimination against black people if they weren’t all criminals who like fried chicken” (No, I know they’re not very good analogies, but just to think about why it’s problematic a little…) ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/30 "2013-12-24T22:22:09Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Hey, Log Cabins, 1950 is calling. It’s called mature socialization. Guess I could expect it from a hormone-crazed 18 year old. If some guy is still acting out his sexuality in public in his forties on a regular basis he needs fixin’. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/31 "2013-12-24T22:22:29Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > And anyone who seeks attention by trying deliberately to annoy me loses points. It’s not always about you (either you-specific or you-straight-people-in-general). Both of those ads are marketing TOWARD GAY PEOPLE. The target audience is gay men. The last thing on the ad peoples’ minds is annoying you (s or g). When the target audience is straight men (as has been mentioned above), the ads seem to involve women in skimpy clothing or provocative poses. When the target audience is gay men, the ads seem to involve MEN in skimpy clothing or provocative poses. Strange, how little actual difference there is beyond the gender of the people in the ads… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/32 "2013-12-24T22:33:35Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Uh, not really sure why you’re treating me like the enemy. Is there something in my previous posts, that leaves you with the impression that I’m being disrespectful towards gays? Well, here are a few of the common homophobic attitudes and beliefs that you, perhaps unconsciously, mirrored in your posts: Gay men are sex obsessed. Gay people should act less gay if they want to be treated equally. Representations of gay sexuality should be held to a more reserved standard than representations of hetero sexuality. Representations of gay sexuality are the equivalent of representations of gay sex. The general practice of discussing gay rights purely in terms of gay men, as if lesbians did not exist. In fairness, the last one is pretty common among gay men, too. Also, arguments that go: “I believe X! Here’s evidence!” “Your evidence doesn’t support X, and your arguments don’t make sense.” “Hmm. I guess you’re right. Nonetheless, X!” …are aggravating in their own right. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/33 "2013-12-24T22:34:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It’s not always about you (either you-specific or you-straight-people-in-general). Both of those ads are marketing TOWARD GAY PEOPLE. The target audience is gay men. The last thing on the ad peoples’ minds is annoying you (s or g). The OP asked about gays shooting themselves in the foot and, ad aside, I gave my response about what counts as a point loss for me. There are reasons for social norms. There are times to break those norms. If we want to live together choosing to deliberately irritate straight people who aren’t sufficiently enlightened yet (to your desire) is probably going to make it more difficult. I don’t think the ad meets that criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/34 "2013-12-24T22:38:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It’s not always about you (either you-specific or you-straight-people-in-general). Both of those ads are marketing TOWARD GAY PEOPLE. The target audience is gay men. The last thing on the ad peoples’ minds is annoying you (s or g). Well, the second one isn’t an ad, it’s a news story about drag queens marching in a Christmas parade in Semmes, Alabama. That one, I’m pretty sure, actually was about annoying straight people, at least a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/35 "2013-12-24T22:47:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, the second one isn’t an ad, it’s a news story about drag queens marching in a Christmas parade in Semmes, Alabama. That one, I’m pretty sure, actually was about annoying straight people, at least a little bit. Eh. Poor straight people. I cry tears of sympathy for their mild annoyance. Maybe they should have a few decades of constant vilification by several of the larger religious denominations in the country, multiple states where they aren’t protected by law AT ALL, and a double helping of families who are as likely to kick them out on the street as to welcome them with open arms and see how important a little annoyance is. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/36 "2013-12-24T22:50:03Z")
Hmm…let me think about this. As a gay man of a certain age, how many MILLIONS of ads and commercials and variety shows have I seen with perky 20-something aged girls, with huge tits, in skimpy Santa outfits, dancing and prancing about? I guess that is supposed to be cute and normal, and the true spirit of Christmas - right? And some people get riled up about some gay guys doing the exact same thing? Nah - nothing hypocritical about that. Come on guys, let’s all go back in the closet and let the heteros have the sexy girl ho ho ho’s twerking their little Santa packages to the beer-swillin’ good old boys. Apparently they own the holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/37 "2013-12-24T22:52:44Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Eh. Poor straight people. Hey, I’m not saying they don’t deserve it. I’m just saying, the second link is a pretty clear cut example of queer activism, and as such, actually is about what straight people think. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/38 "2013-12-24T22:58:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > …If some gay people want to have a parade and be loud and proud and provocative once in a while, so what? Anyway the dance troupe seems to have a point: if we can survive skimpy outfits on cheerleaders and female dancers, we can do the same with male dancers. Exactly. A portion of the heterosexual majority flaunt their sexuality all the time; a segment of the gay/les/bi minority do so as well? BFD. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/39 "2013-12-24T22:59:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, here are a few of the common homophobic attitudes and beliefs that you, perhaps unconsciously, mirrored in your posts: > > Gay men are sex obsessed. This is the exact thing that worries me. I know gays aren’t sex obsessed. But you don’t need to worry about me, I’m already on your side. I worry though, that people who are sitting on the fence may still have this perception. Is that something, we need to concern ourselves with? > [@](#): > > Gay people should act less gay if they want to be treated equally. No, just no. “Acting” gay and “Acting” straight in everyday life is pretty much the same damn thing. I’ll cite all the celebs you posted in your previous post as evidence. > [@](#): > > Representations of gay sexuality should be held to a more reserved standard than representations of hetero sexuality. > Representations of gay sexuality are the equivalent of representations of gay sex. > The general practice of discussing gay rights purely in terms of gay men, as if lesbians did not exist. I apologize if I left you with those impressions, that wasn’t my intent. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078/40 "2013-12-24T23:00:43Z")
Look, it’s the LCRs bitching because they want to show the Republican base how much it and them are alike. Especially against health care for the poor and for what’s left of the middle class, both of whom are altogether too uppity, and fighting against the heathen in the annual war on Christmas. “We’re all alike under the skin.” So to speak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-majority-of-gay-activist-shooting-themselves-in-the-foot/677078.md?page=3)