Unless you’re going downhill, then it sucks.
I’ve been driving for more than 40 years. Every front-whell drive car I’ve ever had was better in winter than every rear-wheel drive car I’ve had.
And none of them were good when the roads were icy.
(post shortened)
All ice is not the same. Having spent many happy winters driving around icy lakes in northern Wisconsin, and traversing many slushy to frozen roads in a dozen states, I’ve experienced many different types of ice. Sometimes the ice surface was relatively rough, and traction was fair. Sometimes the surface was extremely smooth (black ice) and traction was non-existent. Wheeeeeeeee.
I’ve also spent many decades X-Country skiing. Skiing uphill or downhill, pick the right combination of waxes, and away you go. There are many types of glide waxes for the tips and tails, plus soft wax, hard wax, or klister for grip. The choice depends on if the air temperature is above or below freezing, and whether the snow/ice is new or old, dry or wet. Pick the wrong grip wax, and you’re not going anywhere.
Under perfect ice conditions, it’s possible to spin your tires, stop your tires, turn the wheels left to right and back again without being able to change the direction of your momentum. Under rare conditions, I’ve been able to shove 4,000lb pickups across a parking lot. We had ice cleats and the trucks had non-cleated tires.
Unfortunately, weight is a double edged sword. Yes, it can help with traction but the momentum makes it more difficult to stop. Also in really deep snow/mud, the extra weight can cause a vehicle to sink more so than a lighter vehicle.
I have to disagree. Cars with traction control (primarily) and anti-lock breaks (to a smaller extent) are much better on snow and in some cases ice than those without it. I have a Hyundai Tuscon that is the best snow car I’ve ever had. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve felt the car “give” in a slippery situation then instantly “catch” and complete the turn without any counter steering or additional breaking. Anti-lock breaks and AWD help some, but in my opinion not as much as traction control.
I don’t know why you would think narrower tires are better. In general more surface area will give you better traction. In my experience winter tires have a slightly wider profile and tread width than equivalent summer tires designed for the same rim, though the main difference is tread design and cold-temperature rubber.
Depends on whether “good in snow” means not getting stuck, or whether it means safe driving performance. In terms of getting stuck in snow, a front-wheel drive vehicle with 80% of its weight on the drive wheels is going to be a hell of a lot better in snow than a conventional rear-wheel drive (AWD would be even better). Trust me, I’ve had both FWD and RWD, and the difference is “never being stuck in snow, ever” vs. “I wonder how many times it’s going to happen this winter”. Having the drive wheels steerable helps even more, and so does a limited-slip differential.
However, driving performance is a whole different matter. The most important aspects of driving performance in winter conditions are #1, the experience and knowledge of the driver, by far the most important, and #2, the proper tires (ETA: and perhaps traction control as mentioned just above – I have no direct experience with that yet, though the current car has it). I don’t know how many times I’ve been cruising carefully along during a winter storm and come across a Jeep or a four-wheel-drive pickup in the ditch with its pathetic ass sticking up in the air waiting for a tow truck! It’s like they believe that a fancy 4-WD all-terrain vehicle means you can drive like an idiot in bad winter weather. Not very far, you can’t!
This, but with the caveat above. (Except my cars have wheels instead of whells, but same idea! :D)
Yes and no. Subaru’s do well in snow, but as you said you need the right tires. And it depends. When my Wife and I buy a new car for one of us one of the first things we look at is ground clearance. The 2016 Outback has 9 inches. One of the best. Their AWD system is good too, provided you know how to use it (more on that in a second.)
My Wife’s 2016 Outback came with all season tires. That’s fine for most folks, but not for those that really deal with snow and ice. We have not replaced the ‘all seasons’ with snow tires and should make it through the winter OK. Note that we have a very steep drive and get up to 30 feet of snow a year. I do plow it (of course) but we don’t want to just throw away the tires on the Subaru. It does fine, except for deep snow. But we know that real snow tires (we are sold on Bridgestone Blizaks) are the way to go.
More on that from above - In both my Pathfinder and the Outback, for tackling steep and deep, you have to turn off the traction control. Otherwise, at any little slip of a wheel, the traction control reduces engine power/speed and you lose momentum. And are often screwed. You have to know how to handle conditions, and thank god that the option to turn off traction control is still available.
yeah, but that’s on “dry” ice. wet ice is another thing entirely. studs/chains can still help on wet ice, studless snow tires can’t. I experienced this last night.
ABS and traction control are purely reactive systems. they kick in when traction isn’t present. if you have shitty tires in a low-traction situation, all your ABS and traction control systems will be able to do is chatter away while you sail through an intersection you intended to stop at.
Yep. Driving home tonight, an SUV (rental, I suspect) was in the ditch. It wasn’t bad out at all. Snow packed roads. I wondered as I watched the tow truck get it out. "How in the hell did you do that? This is nothing compared to real weather)
When you don’t get what you want, you get experience.
+100
no it isn’t. it’s all about the tire’s tread design and material. the width of the tire has nothing to do with it; the size of the contact patch with the ground is dictated primarily by the weight of the vehicle and the air pressure in the tire. I think a lot of the consternation people have with modern cars in winter is that- at least from the factory- they’re shod with tires designed to reduce rolling resistance for fuel economy reasons. Which means harder tread compounds which turn into hockey pucks in cold temps. if you look at a good winter tire like this Bridgestone Blizzak you’ll see it has tall, squishy tread blocks which stay flexible in cold temps. also, they’re cut with numerous “sipes” (those narrow, squiggly grooves.) When you apply torque to the wheels, either accelerating or braking, the flexing of the tread blocks means those sipes create hundreds of biting edges to claw through snow. They really are amazing; several years ago I put Blizzaks on my (Neon) SRT-4, and it could get through any amount of snow it could physically push out of its way.
on the other hand, a summer performance tire like this one will be utterly useless on snow. as in “stuck on 1” of hard-packed snow on level ground." I’ve seen more than once some idiot in his M3 or RX-8 in winter who can’t get up his own driveway because he still has the summer tires on it.
I’m gonna go with everyone who says tires.
My little Jeep had the wider footprint “summer” tires up until last week, and last winter it was atrocious in the slightest skiff of snow. New all season tires on and it handles like a champ in the snow and ice as long as I don’t let the stupid take the wheel.
Newer vs. Older, I’d go with newer every time, the advances in automotive technology with regard to traction control, power distribution to wheels, etc. provides a big advantage. but you gotta have at least all season tires
or what jz said
I had a 65 bug, too, although studded tires were illegal in the state. Just to be ready for the apocalypse, I bought a set of chains at the VW dealer – he said they had been in the parts dept forever, cause no bug owner needs them, but I bought them anyway. With those on the rear wheels, I was pushing Cadillacs out of ditches. Who needs tractors?
I agree entirely except for the wider tires (with the same tread) being better in the snow and ice. However, the difference would be marginal at best for an ordinary all season tire.
A slightly narrower tire will have a greater weight on the surface for each square inch and get better traction although I do understand the point with the sipes on the winter tires.
Yes, most of these problems seen are from the original tires equipped for long term durability
Thanks
So the bus drivers, the cops, the snow plow operators that drive through Montreal winters in all conditions, year after year are all idiots. While you’d have tried what exactly? :dubious:
Ha, I know that you where not responding to me, but if I where a pedestrian, I would have gotten out of the way and way off the side walk.
I did see three cars in the ditch this morning. It was very weird weather. A week of below zero at night and then today it was above freezing at 9 am. VERY VERY strange weather for here for it to be above freezing in the morning. Or often at all at this time of year.
There are two really bad kinds of ice in may experience: one is what I’m seeing in the Montreal video… the temperature is around freezing and the snow is really wet. This snow gets packed into slimy greasy ice that is impossible to drive on.
The other kind is when the temperature is really cold. The ice gets polished by tires and resembles a curling rink.
in the post you’re responding to I clearly said the area of the tire’s contact patch is dictated by the weight of the car and the air pressure in the tire. that’s it. so what makes you think the width of the tire enters into it?
I stand corrected
Learn something new every day.
Thanks.