# Are the Nolan Batmans good in spite of Christian Bale? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748 "2012-07-10T01:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/21 "2012-07-10T03:36:23Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > yeah, this. i don’t dislike him in the role so much as i’m just “eh” about him. just about every other character is more interesting. in the dark knight, he’s surrounded by more talented actors (gary oldman, michael caine, morgan freeman, heath ledger to name a few) and as a result he’s the least engaging character. > > speaking only about michael keaton’s portrayal, i could not possibly disagree more. i see no discernible difference between bale as bruce wayne and bale as batman. he’s just wearing the suit and doing a different voice. there’s absolutely no subtlety there- bale’s bruce wayne is an obvious candidate for batman. you might say that’s a positive thing, but i don’t agree. with michael keaton, you would never, ever guess that this quiet, reserved guy has a double life as a vigilante crimefighter, and that’s the brilliance of it. sometimes mysteries have answers in the most unexpected of places. > > i’m not saying bale is terrible in the role. he does a passable job, but, yeah, the thread title says it all. he doesn’t make the movie by any stretch, IMO. and what you say about the stark contrast between bruce wayne and batman is exactly what i saw when keaton did the role. it really seemed like two different characters. [THAT’S](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6poX_8CT9kM) Bruce Wayne. There’s no Gothamite who’d consider him The Batman. Which is the entire idea, as nicely captured by Miller and Mazzucchelli [here](http://i.imgur.com/THtAm.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/22 "2012-07-10T03:58:51Z")
Maybe I’m alone here but not counting any comic books (which I’ve never read) it was always my assumption that the course, gravelly sounding voice was strictly started by Michael Keaton (and also probably Tim Burton). I do think that Bale has taken it over the top though, nearly to the point of self-parody. I wonder if this is partly because his normal speaking voice is in the King’s English. 😃 And although I don’t dislike his Batman, I do feel his overly intense, rough voice caricature contributed a lot towards me hating Bale’s John Conner and the overall major disappointment that Terminator 4 was in general… ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/23 "2012-07-10T04:04:56Z")
drastic\_quench: that bruce wayne, in the clip you provided, is clearly overcompensating for something. are there no psychologists in gotham? someone that might put two and two together and speculate that the womanizing billionaire who flaunts his wealth and is kind of a douche clearly has some kind of void he needs to fill, and might just do so living a double life as the batman? i’m not saying it would be obvious to everyone, but i find it hard to swallow that no one in gotham would ever possibly guess that this might be the guy. i haven’t read any of the comics, so i have no idea which portrayal of bruce wayne is closer to the original story. i’m just saying keaton’s take on the character always made a lot of sense to me, and still does. YMM and obviously does V, and there’s nothing wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/24 "2012-07-10T04:24:59Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Maybe I’m alone here but not counting any comic books (which I’ve never read) it was always my assumption that the course, gravelly sounding voice was strictly started by Michael Keaton (and also probably Tim Burton). Nope, like I said in my post, the voice is from the comics and most of the actors didn’t take it far enough. Bale does. > [@expectopatronum](#): > > drastic\_quench: > > that bruce wayne, in the clip you provided, is clearly overcompensating for something. are there no psychologists in gotham? someone that might put two and two together and speculate that the womanizing billionaire who flaunts his wealth and is kind of a douche clearly has some kind of void he needs to fill, and might just do so living a double life as the batman? i’m not saying it would be obvious to everyone, but i find it hard to swallow that no one in gotham would ever possibly guess that this might be the guy. > > i haven’t read any of the comics, so i have no idea which portrayal of bruce wayne is closer to the original story. i’m just saying keaton’s take on the character always made a lot of sense to me, and still does. YMM and obviously does V, and there’s nothing wrong with that. That clip shows Bruce exactly how he is in the comics. He pretends to be a womanizing drunk to throw everyone off. While Bruce Wayne is drunk and burning his mansion to the ground, Batman is saving Gotham. When Bruce is seen getting drunk in his penthouse and running to his safe room (while really dumping out his drinks) Batman is saving the people in the party. It’s a good disguise. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/25 "2012-07-10T04:32:47Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > drastic\_quench: > > that bruce wayne, in the clip you provided, is clearly overcompensating for something. are there no psychologists in gotham? someone that might put two and two together and speculate that the womanizing billionaire who flaunts his wealth and is kind of a douche clearly has some kind of void he needs to fill, and might just do so living a double life as the batman? i’m not saying it would be obvious to everyone, but i find it hard to swallow that no one in gotham would ever possibly guess that this might be the guy. > > i haven’t read any of the comics, so i have no idea which portrayal of bruce wayne is closer to the original story. i’m just saying keaton’s take on the character always made a lot of sense to me, and still does. YMM and obviously does V, and there’s nothing wrong with that. In that fictional world, Gordon is the only one savvy enough to see it for a façade and barely suspects anything more just by virtue of the fact that he’s the best cop in town. We, the audience, are in on it. So the façade is deliciously deliberate. Harleen Quinzel is a Gotham psychologist. Would not recommend. Or Dr. Jonathan Crane. Or Dr. Hugo Strange. Stay away from any shrink in Gotham for the love of god! ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/26 "2012-07-10T13:40:20Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Harleen Quinzel is a Gotham psychologist. Would not recommend. Or Dr. Jonathan Crane. Or Dr. Hugo Strange. Stay away from any shrink in Gotham for the love of god! fair enough. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/27 "2012-07-10T13:51:10Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Bale is my least favorite Batman, and the movies he’s in are my least favorite Batman movies. It’s more Nolan’s directing than Bale I dislike, though: it’s like Batman as depicited as suffering major depression. That is one HELL of a thought. I’m taking it to a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/28 "2012-07-10T13:52:44Z")
God I can’t stand Bale as Batman. I think the last movie was made good by Heath Ledger doing an amazing performance as Joker, but seriously, the first portion of the movie with Bale is boring as sin. He makes a terrible Wayne and is not intimidating or scary at all. Just blah, blah, blah. I miss Michael Keaton. ☹ I think, as others have said/implied, he made the best Wayne, understated, low-key, and no one would tell he had a secondary life. ---
**Author:** ![JMH125](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@JMH125](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JMH125)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/29 "2012-07-10T14:06:38Z")
I don’t know what is going on with Bale’s voice as Batman. Whether that was Bale’s idea or the director’s…whoever, it was a TERRIBLE decision that makes the character sound ridiculous. to be honest, i’ve seen The Dark Knight twice now, and the only thing i really like about it is the Joker, Ledger was awesome. The rest of the movie was just not that great. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/30 "2012-07-10T14:21:53Z")
> [@JMH125](#): > > I don’t know what is going on with Bale’s voice as Batman. Whether that was Bale’s idea or the director’s…whoever, it was a TERRIBLE decision that makes the character sound ridiculous. You know, someone should post something explaining it in this thread. Then you’d have an answer! ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/31 "2012-07-10T14:30:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I miss Michael Keaton. ☹ I think, as others have said/implied, he made the best Wayne, understated, low-key, and no one would tell he had a secondary life. But that’s not how Bruce Wayne is. I explained it in a previous post. > [@Sailboat](#): > > You know, someone should post something explaining it in this thread. Then you’d have an answer! It’s like everyone in this thread has me blocked or something. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/32 "2012-07-10T14:32:02Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > But that’s not how Bruce Wayne is. I explained it in a previous post. > > It’s like everyone in this thread has me blocked or something. Just because you say it does not make it true. And just because it is in the comics does not make it the only correct answer. Who cares about the comics? I don’t read them. In fact I would argue that it’s not a problem to have movie Bruce different from comics Bruce. I never agreed that we have to be 100% true to the source, anyway. Directors and actors always put their own spin on things. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/33 "2012-07-10T14:47:09Z")
I thought Bale as Batman was great. I do think the Batman voice was a little distracting, but only because it sounded like Bale trying to disguise his voice. If they had gone a little more towards sounding like it was somehow artificially disguised, it would have been much better. Something like autotuning, except not cheesy. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/34 "2012-07-10T15:00:11Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Just because you say it does not make it true. And just because it is in the comics does not make it the only correct answer. Who cares about the comics? I don’t read them. In fact I would argue that it’s not a problem to have movie Bruce different from comics Bruce. > > I never agreed that we have to be 100% true to the source, anyway. Directors and actors always put their own spin on things. But it is true to the sources that Nolan used to make his movies. I agree that there are many interpretations of Batman over his 80+ years, but the current series deals with Batman from the 80’s and 90’s and is pretty much dead on. Sure, it varies where necessary, but it’s still true to the source. If enough changes are made, then it’s just a movie with characters that share the same names. I want something that is pretty true to the source and this is it. I still recommend reading DKR, Year One, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Knightfall. You might get a new appreciation for what Nolan has actually done. A lot of scenes are pulled straight from the books and some of them are actually reversed in a way that keeps the movie scenes new to fans of the books. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/35 "2012-07-10T15:19:37Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > But it is true to the sources that Nolan used to make his movies. I agree that there are many interpretations of Batman over his 80+ years, but the current series deals with Batman from the 80’s and 90’s and is pretty much dead on. Sure, it varies where necessary, but it’s still true to the source. If enough changes are made, then it’s just a movie with characters that share the same names. I want something that is pretty true to the source and this is it. > > I still recommend reading DKR, Year One, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Knightfall. You might get a new appreciation for what Nolan has actually done. A lot of scenes are pulled straight from the books and some of them are actually reversed in a way that keeps the movie scenes new to fans of the books. I’ve read Knightfall, and liked it. But like I said, I don’t mind differences. I understand Nolan is following the source. The question was: "Does anyone else think he’s just not a great fit for this role and that the movies succeeded in spite of rather than because of him? " And basically, yes, I agree - Bale made the movies worse, not better. Perhaps Nolan might have done better with another actor. I just don’t like Bale as Batman (or more particularly, as Bruce Wayne, which is equally important if not more.) ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/36 "2012-07-10T15:24:53Z")
But even if Michael Keaton had played Bruce in this series, he would still have played someone pretending to be a womanizing alcoholic. That’s just how Nolan chose to go. Keaton played an understated and low key Bruce because that’s how Tim Burton wanted him. It worked fine in that series, but this one went a different direction. I’m not sure how another actor could have done that better. It wasn’t Bale who decided to make Bruce that way. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/37 "2012-07-10T15:27:08Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > But even if Michael Keaton had played Bruce in this series, he would still have played someone pretending to be a womanizing alcoholic. That’s just how Nolan chose to go. Keaton played an understated and low key Bruce because that’s how Tim Burton wanted him. It worked fine in that series, but this one went a different direction. I’m not sure how another actor could have done that better. It wasn’t Bale who decided to make Bruce that way. Because Bale sucks. 🙂 Seriously, are you really saying that there is no difference between actors? That another actor might not have done the same role and the same things, differently? I mean I certainly think another actor could have done better. I don’t know if Nolan’s dream would have been realized…I don’t think Bale did a good job at it. For example…Can you imagine any other actor as Indiana Jones? What if Daniel Craig had been Indiana Jones (I know, bear with me). Even if he did everything the same he would have brought his own finesse and his own persona to the role. A good actor colours his role with himself. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/38 "2012-07-10T15:34:12Z")
I agree that an actor brings a lot to the role, but I’m just wondering how to make Bale’s Wayne as understated and low key as Keaton’s while maintaining the high-profile lifestyle that Wayne has in the current series. I can’t see Keaton’s Wayne pulling up to the hotel in a Lamborghini with supermodels and then going swimming in the fountain or throwing a huge party in a penthouse and pretending to be drunk. They’re just two different characters. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/39 "2012-07-10T15:41:45Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > I agree that an actor brings a lot to the role, but I’m just wondering how to make Bale’s Wayne as understated and low key as Keaton’s while maintaining the high-profile lifestyle that Wayne has in the current series. I can’t see Keaton’s Wayne pulling up to the hotel in a Lamborghini with supermodels and then going swimming in the fountain or throwing a huge party in a penthouse and pretending to be drunk. They’re just two different characters. Yes, they are. And I’m not necessarily saying that all Batmans should be like Keaton\*. I just like him best of all the Batmans I’ve known. I don’t know if someone else could have done the role better. I do know I feel Bale did a bad job. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/40 "2012-07-10T15:49:07Z")
Fair enough, as I can find something to like about all of the Batman movies (I’ve even got Batman and Robin on Blu-ray, ha!). When I read the panel linked in a previous post from Year One where Gordon visits Wayne Manor and Bruce is pretending to lounge around drunk all day with that exotic woman whose name he doesn’t even know, I can see Bale pulling off that cocky, laid back attitude perfectly and then removing the Bruce Wayne mask and becoming serious when he turns back into Batman as Gordon leaves (and confesses to Barbara about Sarah). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748.md?page=3)