# Are the Nolan Batmans good in spite of Christian Bale? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748 "2012-07-10T01:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/41 "2012-07-10T16:19:25Z")
I didn’t _dislike_ this movie, just aspects of it. I do have a problem with the girl; can’t remember her name offhand, but she annoyed me and while I wasn’t exactly rooting for her to die, I knew which of the two (Harvey Dent and the girl) were more important for _Gotham_. I also thought Harvey Dent’s fall was a little too pat. I feel like they spent a lot of time in exposition in the first forty minutes of the movie and could have spent a little more time on his fall and developing just what made the White Knight fall so badly. By then it just felt like “Hey - you all know he falls! Let’s get on with it!” Basically I think they spent too long on the trees and not enough on the forest. I did, however, think Joker was amazing. When I first watched the movie, I didn’t like it much and didn’t remember a lot of it (seriously that is a long and complicated movie and it takes at least two viewings to ‘get’ everything)…so I wasn’t sure how good Joker was, and thought perhaps some of it was hype (dead actors are always better, as they say). I watched it again in the comfort of my home, and realized - he had done a phenomenal job. But don’t tell me he doesn’t plan! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/42 "2012-07-10T16:52:07Z")
I agree with those criticisms and I never did like the Rachel character either. Batman Begins is acutally my favorite Batman movie and Batman doesn’t even seem like he’s fully there until the second half. It mostly explores Year One Bruce Wayne in a way that the other movies didn’t. Mask of the Phantasm does a pretty good job too, but it’s always forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/43 "2012-07-10T16:59:54Z")
I liked Batman Returns, if only for the dynamic between Michelle Pfeiffer and Keaton. I swear, I could talk Batman all day. That, and Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/44 "2012-07-10T17:43:56Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I swear, I could talk Batman all day. _If_ you were prepared. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/45 "2012-07-10T17:59:40Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > And although I don’t dislike his Batman, I do feel his overly intense, rough voice caricature contributed a lot towards me hating Bale’s John Conner and the overall major disappointment that Terminator 4 was in general… I guess you never read that issue of Detective Comics where Batman was doing a bad Randy “Macho Man” Savage imitation. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/46 "2012-07-10T18:06:50Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > that bruce wayne, in the clip you provided, is clearly overcompensating for something. are there no psychologists in gotham? someone that might put two and two together and speculate that the womanizing billionaire who flaunts his wealth and is kind of a douche clearly has some kind of void he needs to fill, and might just do so living a double life as the batman? i’m not saying it would be obvious to everyone, but i find it hard to swallow that no one in gotham would ever possibly guess that this might be the guy. Sorry, but that’s just Freudian gibberish. This sort of profiling doesn’t even work on run of the mill psychopaths, let alone the world’s greatest ninja detective. By the time you start claiming “Bruce Wayne is unlike Batman, therefore _is_ Batman”, you’ve just put every white male in the city on your suspects list. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/47 "2012-07-10T18:23:02Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I liked Batman Returns, if only for the dynamic between Michelle Pfeiffer and Keaton. > > I swear, I could talk Batman all day. That, and Star Wars. I think what sold Keaton as Batman for me was Keaton’s ability to convey “barely restrained psycho.” There’s a darkness there that I think Bale hasn’t captured. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/48 "2012-07-10T20:13:39Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > [THAT’S](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6poX_8CT9kM) Bruce Wayne. There’s no Gothamite who’d consider him The Batman. Which is the entire idea, as nicely captured by Miller and Mazzucchelli [here](http://i.imgur.com/THtAm.jpg). Interestingly, that Miller comic scene was lifted word for word (and scene for scene) and put into one of the animated series. Bruce even has a “Basic Instinct Sharon Stone” moment with the future Batgirl. Still trying to find it but I agree on all points with this post. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/49 "2012-07-10T20:55:24Z")
Was it in Mask of the Phantasm? I haven’t seen it in awhile, but it seemed like that movie lifted several things straight out of Year One. Heck, it might have been in Year One, which was released on DVD a year or two ago. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/50 "2012-07-10T21:24:20Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I think what sold Keaton as Batman for me was Keaton’s ability to convey “barely restrained psycho.” There’s a darkness there that I think Bale hasn’t captured. Really? Because when I see Bale’s Bruce Wayne, I see a lot of Pattrick Bateman from American Psycho. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/51 "2012-07-10T21:37:03Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I think what sold Keaton as Batman for me was Keaton’s ability to convey “barely restrained psycho.” There’s a darkness there that I think Bale hasn’t captured. That’s my opinion as Well. Bale’s Batman seems like a poser brooder. Like an idiot high schooler going super goth for attention. Keaton did what he does better than anyone, making Batman a character where the sane guy is the act and the psycho guy is real. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/52 "2012-07-10T22:10:57Z")
I like Bale’s Batman and Bruce Wayne. I love _Batman Begins_ and really like _The Dark Knight_. Yes, Keaton had a great Bruce Wayne and Batman, but they are portrayed differently. > [@expectopatronum](#): > > that bruce wayne, in the clip you provided, is clearly overcompensating for something. are there no psychologists in gotham? someone that might put two and two together and speculate that the womanizing billionaire who flaunts his wealth and is kind of a douche clearly has some kind of void he needs to fill, and might just do so living a double life as the batman? i’m not saying it would be obvious to everyone, but i find it hard to swallow that no one in gotham would ever possibly guess that this might be the guy. Um, yeah, he’s overcompensating for something - that his parents were murdered when he was young right in front of him, that he’s richer than rich, that he’s a spoiled, egotistical brat with more money than sense. Or are you suggesting we should be checking out Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan to see if they are secretly fighting crime? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/53 "2012-07-10T22:21:25Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Or are you suggesting we should be checking out Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan to see if they are secretly fighting crime? Lohan seems more likely headed to the Super Villain side of the track. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/54 "2012-07-10T23:37:22Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > Interestingly, that Miller comic scene was lifted word for word (and scene for scene) and put into one of the animated series. Bruce even has a “Basic Instinct Sharon Stone” moment with the future Batgirl. Still trying to find it but I agree on all points with this post. Found it. It was Barbara Gordon according to the credits but that sure doesn’t look like Batgirl. Looks like Mrs. Gordon. From Batman: Year One which was adapted from Miller’s comic. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/c8kbffrvdWM/maxresdefault.jpg "Batman-Year One Playboy Clip") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8kbffrvdWM) Also, what Batman is, is not depressed. When you’re depressed you don’t want to get out of bed, much less get yourself in top shape and put in a Chinese prison. I don’t think too many here understand what depression really is. Single minded to the point of obsession? Yes. Depressed? No. He’d more likely be drinking those drinks to stupidity every single night. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/55 "2012-07-11T00:41:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Really? Because when I see Bale’s Bruce Wayne, I see a lot of Pattrick Bateman from American Psycho. Perhaps; I haven’t seen the movie, but I have seen clips on youtube. And [this guy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvBAEp3Znn4&feature=relmfu) seems to have a lot more in common with The Joker than Batman. Not having seen American Psycho, I might be missing out on some nuances of Bale’s performance, but I don’t think so. But my original point stands: Keaton’s Bruce Wayne had a darkness that I think Bale’s Bruce Wayne is lacking. Like **wolfman** says, and I agree: with Keaton, Wayne is the act and Batman is who he is. This is not a knock on Bale; he’s obviously a talented and accomplished actor. It’s more a script/tone route that Nolan’s chosen to go with, and it hasn’t “grabbed” my attention the way Burton/Keaton did. I will say this: while I like the Burton/Keaton Batman better, I did NOT like Burton’s visual conception of the Gotham environment, or the Batman trappings; just a bit too Gothic retro for me. Nolan’s overall much more contemporary stylings suit me much better. And I thought Nicholson’s Joker was definitive…until I saw Ledger’s Joker. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/56 "2012-07-11T01:44:32Z")
Part of my problem with Batman was Jack Nicholson playing The Joker. He just always seemed like Jack dressed as The Joker. Mark Hamill was the definitive Joker for me and probably still is. I did enjoy Ledger though. I actually thought Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face was a better Joker than Jack Nicholson. Batman Forever was my favorite from that series though, believe it or not. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/57 "2012-07-11T02:30:19Z")
At its heart, the Batman story has always been about the two natures of a man: Bruce Wayne and the Batman. This theme is explored over and over: Harvey Dent/Two Face, and the stories that portray Batman and the Joker as two sides of the same coin. I thought “The Dark Knight” did a pretty good job of this, and in some ways maybe didn’t go far enough. With that said, I never cared for Bale’s voice, but I thought his characterization was otherwise spot-on. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/58 "2012-07-11T02:45:55Z")
For me, no. The Nolan films seem to be missing something. I really can’t say what it is, but if it wasn’t a Batman movie, I wouldn’t own them. I still would watch the Burton Batman movies over the Nolan ones any day. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/59 "2012-07-11T10:35:32Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I think what sold Keaton as Batman for me was Keaton’s ability to convey “barely restrained psycho.” There’s a darkness there that I think Bale hasn’t captured. Have to 3rd this as well. I wouldn’t necessarily say that Keaton was the ideal Bruce Wayne because he didn’t get a chance to do the whole care-free-playboy routine like Bale. However he really sold the idea of someone tortured enough to dress up like a bat and fight crime. Key scenes are when he’s dropping off the roses at Crime Alley and later on when he’s reminiscing on his parents death and realizing that the Joker/Jack Napier and his parent’s killer are one and the same. Christian Bale is an excellent actor, and his Bruce Wayne DOES seem similar to Patrick Bateman, it’s only because they both act very fake. Bale’s Wayne is putting on a very fake playboy act, and Bale’s Bateman is trying to act the way he thinks normal people act in order to fit in. It worked very well in American Psycho but it’s not very convincing in the Nolan films. Also, his non-playboy act Bruce Wayne is pretty vanilla as well. Maybe it’s because he’s acting through a fake American accent. The Prestige acting was much, much better. As for his Batman, that voice was SO distracting in Batman Begins. It sounds like he’s trying way too hard to sound scary, which ends up being kind of funny. However, towards the middle of The Dark Knight, I think he found a good middle ground for the growl, especially when he’s talking with Two-Face at the end. I loved Burton’s Batman partly because of Keaton. I loved Dark Knight partly because of Ledger. But I think that Bale will end up turning in a great performance in Dark Knight Rises. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748/60 "2012-07-11T11:48:21Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Maybe it’s because he’s acting through a fake American accent. I think that’s a common obstacle for many actors, especially noticeable now that so many non-American actors are in leading roles at the moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-nolan-batmans-good-in-spite-of-christian-bale/627748.md?page=4)