# Are the Oscars out of touch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640 "2014-01-13T05:57:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/41 "2014-01-14T01:24:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > This is very old, I posted this before BTW: > > My Favorite example comes from the Alternate Oscars [Danny Peary] book that pointed at the issues from the 1932-1933 Oscars. > > The best picture was won then by _Cavalcade_… you do remember that one huh? > > It won over: > > \*A farewell to arms, 42nd Street, I’m a fugitive from a Chain Gang, The Private life of Henry VII \* > > Ten movies were nominated then, still there was no room to include: > > _Duck Soup (!), Dinner at Eight, Queen Christina, Trouble in Paradise, The Mummy, The Invisible Man_ and… One issue is that it’s impossible to determine how films will be regarded decades later. Tastes change, and voters can only choose films based upon the critical assumptions of their own times. Hindsight may say **Cavalcade** is not a great film (though without seeing it, I cannot say), but the award was given in 1933, and it may have been considered quite good for the time. In addition, films prior to around 1950 were not voted upon by a free ballot. Thus, the Best Picture winner was often determined because that particular year it was Fox’s turn to win Best Picture, so all the studios told their workers to vote for Fox’s candidate (there were also tradeoffs for acting roles). This weakened in the forties (when some UK films started winning Best Picture), and ended in the 50s when the studios withdrew funding AMPAS.\* The Oscars might have faded away and been forgotten if TV hadn’t stepped in and paid their expenses. But since the mid-40s, the Academy voted freely, and chose films that were considered excellent _at that time._ The main difference between its judgment and that of the moviegoing audience is that AMPAS is older and probably with more females (thought, I hasten to add, no where near equally representing the genders). \*AMPAS, BTW, was originally founded as a company union to keep workers in line. It was an afterthought for it to hand out awards. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/42 "2014-01-14T01:27:36Z")
Every few years someone goes digging into who makes up the HFPA, and the results are always amusing. Here’s one example; and he has links to a lot of other articles: [http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/01/in-defense-of-the-golden-globes-45167.html](http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/01/in-defense-of-the-golden-globes-45167.html) > [@](#): > > You can be forgiven for not recognizing their names — not simply because they’re foreign, but because many are not, in fact, regularly employed as film writers. Alexander Nevsky of Russia, for instance, is a bodybuilder who writes fitness books. Howard Lucraft of Argentina is a composer and jazz writer in his mid-90s. And those are just two of the few whose existence I could confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/43 "2014-01-14T01:40:33Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Yeah, as others have said the Oscars aren’t supposed to be a popularity contest, they’re supposed to be about what was best in moviemaking in the past year. Incorrect. The Ocsars are about the best in moviemaking in November and December of the past year. That’s part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/44 "2014-01-14T02:22:29Z")
> [@cdnirish](#): > > Admittedly, over the long history of the Oscars a significant number of winners of any of the “big five”(picture, director, actor, actress and screenplay/screenwriter), have been commercial successes as well. But it does seem like there has become more of a disconnect between the two over the past few years. You have a strange definition of “commercial success.” **Argo** made over $130 million in the U.S. Its overseas take wasn’t as impressive, which isn’t really surprising, but then you have **The King’s Speech** , which was a gigantic hit in a number of countries (including the U.S.) and took in over $400 million worldwide. **Slumdog Millionaire** ($378 million) and **The Departed** ($290 million worldwide) were also very successful. As several people have pointed out, it’s far more unusual for Best Picture winners to be flops than it is for them to be successes. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/45 "2014-01-14T02:58:23Z")
Dollar figures mean nothing if they are not comparative. List the the top grossers for the year and see if more than half of them won best picture. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/46 "2014-01-14T03:09:34Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Objectively speaking **Star Wars** is not a very good movie except for the groundbreaking special effects. It’s a good kid’s movie, I admit. That’s actually subjective, not objective. When you’re stating an opinion, it’s subjective. When you state fact, like Star Wars was released in 1977, that would be objective. If it were me subjectively speaking, Star Wars was a great movie, one of the best of all time. Annie Hall was fine, but not Woody Allen’s best, and didn’t deserve to win in the year that Star Wars changed movies forever. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/47 "2014-01-14T03:14:06Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > You have a strange definition of “commercial success.” **Argo** made over $130 million in the U.S. Its overseas take wasn’t as impressive, which isn’t really surprising, but then you have **The King’s Speech** , which was a gigantic hit in a number of countries (including the U.S.) and took in over $400 million worldwide. **Slumdog Millionaire** ($378 million) and **The Departed** ($290 million worldwide) were also very successful. > > As several people have pointed out, it’s far more unusual for Best Picture winners to be flops than it is for them to be successes. That’s a lot of money in ordinary terms. But look at that in context. Rank from [Boxofficemojo.com](http://Boxofficemojo.com), giving rank among U.S. grosses for the year of release, followed by rank among worldwide grosses for the year of release. Argo, 22, na The King’s Speech, 18, na Slumdog Millionaire, 16, 14 The Departed, 15, 14 There’s a huge difference between making money and being a blockbuster. No movie that can’t even break into the top ten of its year is a blockbuster. None of them rank in the top 100 alltime either domestic or worldwide. Slumdog is #198 worldwide. Avatar is #1, Return of the King #7. Those are blockbusters. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/48 "2014-01-14T05:04:00Z")
And here we go! Top-grossers and whether or not: ## 2012 The Avengers 2011 Harry Potter DH2 2010 Toy Story 3 2009 Avatar 2008 The Dark Knight 2007 Spiderman 3 2006 Dead Man’s Chest 2005 Revenge of the Sith 2004 Shrek 2 2003 **Return of the King - Win!** 2002 Spiderman 2001 Harry Potter SS 2000 The Grinch 1999 The Phantom Menace 1998 Saving Private Ryan 1997 **Titanic - Win!** 1996 Independence Day 1995 Toy Story 1994 **Forrest Gump - Win!** 1993 Jurassic Park 1992 Alladin 1991 Terminator 2 1990 Home Alone Anything that follows will show the same thing: the top grossers are the flyers. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/49 "2014-01-14T05:57:21Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > That’s actually subjective, not objective. When you’re stating an opinion, it’s subjective. When you state fact, like Star Wars was released in 1977, that would be objective. > > If it were me subjectively speaking, Star Wars was a great movie, one of the best of all time. Annie Hall was fine, but not Woody Allen’s best, and didn’t deserve to win in the year that Star Wars changed movies forever. I agree; _Star Wars_ is a genuinely great movie and its impact on filmmaking was incalculably vast. But I wouldn’t say that _Star Wars_ got snubbed at the Oscars; it won seven (although they were primarily technical awards) and was nominated in four of the major categories (best picture, director, original screenplay, and supporting actor). Just the fact that _Star Wars_ was in the Best Picture pool is amazing, given that it’s a scifi film. Even _2001: A Space Odyssey_ didn’t get a BP nomination. I think **Wendell Wagner** is right on target. The Academy tends to like popular middlebrow films that have a patina of seriousness about them. _Annie Hall_ fits the bill nicely; _Star Wars_ doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/50 "2014-01-14T06:13:32Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > You have a strange definition of “commercial success.” **Argo** made over $130 million in the U.S. Its overseas take wasn’t as impressive, which isn’t really surprising, but then you have **The King’s Speech** , which was a gigantic hit in a number of countries (including the U.S.) and took in over $400 million worldwide. **Slumdog Millionaire** ($378 million) and **The Departed** ($290 million worldwide) were also very successful. > > As several people have pointed out, it’s far more unusual for Best Picture winners to be flops than it is for them to be successes. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s a lot of money in ordinary terms. But look at that in context. > > Rank from [Boxofficemojo.com](http://Boxofficemojo.com), giving rank among U.S. grosses for the year of release, followed by rank among worldwide grosses for the year of release. > > Argo, 22, na > The King’s Speech, 18, na > Slumdog Millionaire, 16, 14 > The Departed, 15, 14 > > There’s a huge difference between making money and being a blockbuster. No movie that can’t even break into the top ten of its year is a blockbuster. None of them rank in the top 100 alltime either domestic or worldwide. Slumdog is #198 worldwide. Avatar is #1, Return of the King #7. Those are blockbusters. You really can’t ignore production costs when you’re talking about whether or not a movie was successful. Most best picture nominees are not going to be the kind of movies with massive budgets. _Argo_ made $136,025,503 domestic and had a $44.5 million budget. That’s a financial success. Same with _Silver Linings Playbook_ ($21 million production - $132,092,958 domestic) and _Lincoln_ ($65 million production - $182,207,973 domestic). Compare them to movies like _Snow White and the Huntsman_ ($170 million budget - $182,207,973 domestic), _Men in Black 3_ ($225 million budget - $179,020,854 domestic), and _The Amazing Spider-Man_ ($230 million budget - $262,030,663 domestic). So while Oscar-worthy movies may not be at the top of the grosses, they often earn more profits that the movies that are. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/51 "2014-01-14T06:19:32Z")
Shouldn’t we think of academy awards more about increasing the bankability of a studio, its director(s), crew and pool of acting talents? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/52 "2014-01-14T11:55:57Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > Which, sadly, is a bust of the man and not a Gold Statuette like the other Honorary awards (including the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian). So while he did get an award from the Academy, he never even got a special Oscar (he was nominated 5 times & even had a film win Best Picture: **Rebecca** ). So they could not deign to give an actual award to the Director of _Birds_, _North by Northwest_, _Rear Window_, _Pycho_, _Strangers on a Train_, _Rebecca_, _Vertigo_.:rolleyes: They must be still kicking themselves. I did like Hitch’s acceptance speech when he got the memorial prize. On re _Star Wars_ and _Annie Hall_ the later was a good movie, the former a groundbreaking, genre creating one.m I did think Shakespeare in Love was a good film, better than many other winners ( Slumdog, The Artist etc), but it should have been Saving Private Ryan. Moreover, that’s the year Roberto Benini got his award right? ---
**Author:** ![jfreakofkorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jfreakofkorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfreakofkorn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/53 "2014-01-14T12:24:56Z")
all this is name recognition and a pay raise who ever wins one, has it connected it to their name “sir” or “lord” in england ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/54 "2014-01-14T13:09:52Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Dollar figures mean nothing if they are not comparative. List the the top grossers for the year and see if more than half of them won best picture. I’ve done this… didn’t you read my post that said that almost 1/4 of B. Picture winners were the top-grossing movie of their calendar year? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/55 "2014-01-15T01:15:46Z")
Then it must have slackened off in the last 22 years. See post #48. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/56 "2014-01-15T01:44:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So while Oscar-worthy movies may not be at the top of the grosses, they often earn more profits that the movies that are. As I already said, financially successful and blockbuster are two different categories. And the whole point of the OP was to ask about blockbusters, not merely financially successful. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/57 "2014-01-15T18:32:43Z")
_The Globes are run by the Hollywood Foreign Press Association (HFPA), and voted on by barely 80 journalists—in contrast to the Oscars, chosen by 6,000 members of the prestigious Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences_. > **['American Hustle,' '12 Years a Slave' top Golden Globes](https://japantoday.com/category/entertainment/american-hustle-12-years-a-slave-top-golden-globes)** > > "American Hustle" won big at the Golden Globes Sunday, while harrowing drama "12 Years a Slave" took the coveted best drama prize, fueling buzz ahead of the all-important Oscars. "Hustle," the stylish crime caper by director David O. Russell, took... Neither the “Globes” or the “Academy” rely on input from the public for their decisions. Voting members (hopefully) vote for the directors, actors, films, categories, etc that they believe are best. (or believe that their vote will get them a part in the next movie. hehehe. ) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/58 "2014-01-15T19:17:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _The Globes are run by the Hollywood Foreign Press Association (HFPA), and voted on by barely 80 journalists—in contrast to the Oscars, chosen by 6,000 members of the prestigious Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences_. I’ll take 80 votes from film-literate journalists over 6000 instances of autofellatio. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/59 "2014-01-15T19:27:41Z")
I know! Let’s just automatically give the biggest blockbuster every year the award for Best Picture. Let’s see arguments for not doing that can’t just be batted down for being “out of touch” as easily as the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640/60 "2014-01-15T19:54:27Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I know! Let’s just automatically give the biggest blockbuster every year the award for Best Picture. > > Let’s see arguments for not doing that can’t just be batted down for being “out of touch” as easily as the current situation. Of course public preference expressed as dollars is an inarguable index of artistic and creative quality. /close thread [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-oscars-out-of-touch/678640.md?page=4)