# Are the police departments getting too greedy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100 "2007-03-22T23:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/21 "2007-03-25T02:39:45Z")
So, despite the facts that you have nothing but an unsupported anecdotes for any of your claims; you keep making claims about “the police” as if the State Police, the 83 Sheriff departments, and the several dozens of municipal police departments are all one monolithic body; and you keep saying they are “greedy” without providing a shred of evidence that the police have anything to do with setting fines or that they somehow control the fines being returned to their departments; you have this nonsense polluting **Great Debates**. This misplaced, fact free rant is now being moved to the **Pit**. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/22 "2007-03-25T04:12:55Z")
Tom you are weird. I relayed what a guy who is a friend of several years told me and several others. We have had several discussions about it. One of my friends was as skeptical as you because he did not think such things were possible either. I was originally skeptical too. However as well as we know him we pretty well accept because he answered all our doubts. Not a rant just reporting what was told to me. ---
**Author:** ![scottkris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@scottkris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scottkris)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/23 "2007-03-25T04:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] There have been posts about traffic cameras and speed traps. This one is new. In Michigan if you have all the paper work in order ,when the cops pull you over, but have not signed the back of your registration it is a 75 fine. If you forget the proof of insurance slip it is a 100 fine plus 400$ in court costs. This is with valid insurance and license. A few years ago ,if you forgot your certificate you were written a ticket(25$) I believe, when you brought proof to the police station. What justifies a multiple of the fines.?: Plus if you have an ink pen and say I’ll sign it now, they won’t let you. [/QUOTE] I’m just going to pit people that put “$” after the numbers. It is 75, not 75, or worse yet, 75 $. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/24 "2007-03-25T05:24:06Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Tom you are weird. I relayed what a guy who is a friend of several years told me and several others. We have had several discussions about it. One of my friends was as skeptical as you because he did not think such things were possible either. I was originally skeptical too. However as well as we know him we pretty well accept because he answered all our doubts. Not a rant just reporting what was told to me. [/QUOTE] Regardless whether or not I am (IYO) weird, his little anecdote has nothing to do with your (purported) thesis that some (unidentified) police department(s) in the state of Michigan are greedy. Even if his story is true (and I am afraid that his ability to persuade **you** that he is neither lying nor shaping the story is not a particularly effective argument for me), it would have nothing to do with the police being greedy as they (or some agency) would have to expend time and money to do the random breath or blood level checks (that do not cost thousands of dollars) while bringing no revenue back into the police department (which department? State? Sheriff?, municipal?) anyway.) Where is the evidence that the **police** are greedy (_look at your thread title_) as supported by evidence from Michigan law? Ranting about the greed of unidentified police departments while providing no evidence that the police (as opposed to some other agency) is setting and collecting fines that return directly to the police is a rant, not a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/25 "2007-03-25T17:33:53Z")
I think that **gonzomax’s** friend almost certainly had a prior conviction or two. The current penalties in Michigan for DUI(OWI, OWVI) are laid out nicely in [This Web Site](http://www.mi-dui-central.com/content/mi_dui_penalties.php). While it’s possible the fines have changed over the years, not knowing when the incident in question occured, I would suggest that the guy probably had at least two prior convictions to have incurred a $2500 fine. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/26 "2007-03-25T17:39:53Z")
He says he did not have another conviction. Therefore I go by that. Strangely I think he is in better position to know. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/27 "2007-03-25T17:47:32Z")
Me and my pa don’t call 'em revenuers for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/28 "2007-03-25T17:47:50Z")
As originally stated, If it is not about revenue. Then if a cop pulled you over and noticed your registration was unsigned, why shouldn’t you just sign it there. If the point is,who knows why it is important,that the registration get signed, then it is signed. No harm no foul. How is a dollars 100 fine justified.? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/29 "2007-03-25T17:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Please provide the evidence that the State of Michigan has claimed a right to impose fines or other sanctions for crimes initially committed in other states. [/QUOTE] My reading of law sites talk about the “Interstate Compact” that most states belong to. And, when a state reports to Michigan that one of its residents was convicted of an offense in that state, Michigan can add it to the resident’s record. But a simple first-time conviction for DUI in Ohio, reported to Michigan, doesn’t appear to warrant a $2500 fine in Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/30 "2007-03-25T18:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] He says he did not have another conviction. Therefore I go by that. Strangely I think he is in better position to know. [/QUOTE] Did you ask him then why he was punished as though he had two priors? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/31 "2007-03-25T19:45:24Z")
Not logical. He told me first offense and that it was the new way. I felt no need to dispute. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/32 "2007-03-25T19:52:20Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] He says he did not have another conviction. Therefore I go by that. Strangely I think he is in better position to know. [/QUOTE] I ask that type of question all the time and am amazed how often it’s misinterpreted. I work in MI w/offenders. some possabilities are: **tomndeb** is correct, the additional sanctions were probably 'cause the OH charge violated a probation (though not necessarily for another DUI) the 2500$ sounds like “driver resposability” fine maybe. but the demand for breathalyzers etc would likely a supervisory condition. of course, it’s also possible that the Ohio charge included a fine and probation which would then be transferred to MI and subject to MI probationary conditions. the latter is most likely to me. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/33 "2007-03-25T21:27:47Z")
When the story was related to us,we all were in shock. We asked the very same questions you asked. He gave the answers I related to you. That is all I have. You have provided no new and interesting insight that we didn’t or couldn’t ask. They were asked and answered. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/34 "2007-03-25T21:30:17Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] My reading of law sites talk about the “Interstate Compact” that most states belong to. And, when a state reports to Michigan that one of its residents was convicted of an offense in that state, Michigan can add it to the resident’s record. [/QUOTE] To make this more weird, Michigan isn’t part of the [Non-Resident Violator Compact](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Resident_Violator_Compact) ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/35 "2007-03-25T22:55:35Z")
Well, some police departments do get greedy. For example, [the Red Oak, TX PD.](http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/16/1659.asp) > [@](#): > > Evidence shows that the city’s police force began issuing a traffic ticket every twenty minutes during a severe budget shortfall. In January 2007, the force issued just under 1800 tickets, up from 559 in January 2006. > … > > The police chief budgeted $3.4 million in citation revenue, which required each officer to issue 320 tickets a month. A bulletin board in the police station displayed how each officer measured up. Motorists complained of receiving tickets for minor infractions such as driving 5 MPH over the limit on Interstate 35E. In this case, the money was going to the city, not the PD, but it was the PD that set the budget for how much citation revenue they would generate. One can assume that this would make it a lot easier for the PD to request and receive a commensurate share of that revenue in the next budget. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/36 "2007-03-26T00:54:02Z")
[QUOTE=wring] I ask that type of question all the time and am amazed how often it’s misinterpreted. I work in MI w/offenders. some possabilities are: **tomndeb** is correct, the additional sanctions were probably 'cause the OH charge violated a probation (though not necessarily for another DUI) the 2500$ sounds like “driver resposability” fine maybe. but the demand for breathalyzers etc would likely a supervisory condition. of course, it’s also possible that the Ohio charge included a fine and probation which would then be transferred to MI and subject to MI probationary conditions. the latter is most likely to me. [/QUOTE] According to what he said. He took care of everything in Ohio first. He went to court paid fines paid costs. Did whatever they wanted. He was quite chagrined. It was in the mail a few weeks later that he got a letter from Michigan police informing him of the 2500. Then probation and whatever else. If any one remembers ,it was on one of the TV network news programs a few years ago. Some southern states were declaring people they pulled over as drug dealers. They confiscated their cars and personal property and auctioned them off. They bought sophisticated and modern weapons and chase cards for the police. They were cleaning up . Black people in fancy cars were especially targeted. Who made the decision to do that if not the police? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/37 "2007-03-26T01:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] According to what he said. He took care of everything in Ohio first. He went to court paid fines paid costs. Did whatever they wanted. He was quite chagrined. It was in the mail a few weeks later that he got a letter from Michigan police informing him of the 2500. Then probation and whatever else. [/QUOTE] Probation is a sentence. Done in court by a judge, not via a letter. Or at least that’s been the case in the tens of thousands of cases I’ve worked with in Michigan. I’m betting that he was put on probation in Ohio and the probation was supervised in Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/38 "2007-03-26T01:38:20Z")
[QUOTE=wring] Probation is a sentence. Done in court by a judge, not via a letter. Or at least that’s been the case in the tens of thousands of cases I’ve worked with in Michigan. I’m betting that he was put on probation in Ohio and the probation was supervised in Michigan. [/QUOTE] Do you have any thoughts on why Michigan fined him $2500? Seems extreme for a first-time offense. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/39 "2007-03-26T01:48:52Z")
there is a “driver responsability” fine that is charged especially w/DUI’s, I know that a first Driving while impaired got the person a $1000 fine to sec. of state (seperate from court costs etc.) depending on other things perhaps like if there was an accident involved (which would increase the likelihood of probation). Or, he (the friend) could be not telling the whole truth, or not remembering prior offenses (the latter is very frequent in my experience). or he could be verbally combining all of the costs for shock value (“I got fined 2 grand for a first offense dude!” when it was 1 grand fine, 300 court costs and 700 supervisory or attorney fees) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100/40 "2007-03-26T02:30:14Z")
Actually he says total cost was around 10k. A years probation results in a monthly probation fee. Court costs, lawyers etc. fines … it adds up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-police-departments-getting-too-greedy/397100.md?page=3)