# Are the Polish grom considered a tier one unit **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272 "2015-05-04T20:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/1 "2015-05-04T20:41:22Z")
Are they comparable to jtf2, delta force, sas, etc or are they more comparable to navy seals or green berets? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/2 "2015-05-04T21:15:22Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Are they comparable to jtf2, delta force, sas, etc or are they more comparable to navy seals or green berets? They don’t use the metric system like the rest of Europe? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/3 "2015-05-05T02:21:14Z")
I don’t know, but their gelato is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/4 "2015-05-05T02:42:53Z")
Poland seems to think so: “GROM was originally modelled on NATO’s most reputable special operations units such as the British SAS, the US Army’s Delta Force, and the US Navy’s SEAL Team Six (DEVGRU).” > **[JW GROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_GROM)** > > JW GROM (full name: Jednostka Wojskowa GROM im. Cichociemnych Spadochroniarzy Armii Krajowej, English: Military Unit GROM named in honour of the Silent Unseen of the Home Army) is a Polish special forces unit and forms part of the Special Troops Command of the Polish Armed Forces. > The unit's other name is Jednostka Wojskowa 2305 (Military Unit No. 2305). GROM operators gained the nickname of "The Surgeons" due to their extensive medical training and knowledge and their surgical ability to coordi... ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/5 "2015-05-05T02:50:16Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Are they comparable to jtf2, delta force, sas, etc or are they more comparable to navy seals or green berets? [It doesn’t appear to be a part of any other branch of the Polish military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_GROM) but I don’t know. [It’s currently commanded by a Colonel but has been commanded by Brigadier Generals in the past](http://www.grom.wp.mil.pl/en/20.html) if that tells you anything. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/6 "2015-05-05T06:23:10Z")
So how do you recognize the groom at a Polish wedding? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/7 "2015-05-05T08:12:00Z")
IMHO, the difficulty with answering the question is that this unit (like similar formations in other countries) hardly ever get to put their skills into praxis (unlike the US military). So nobody knows for sure. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/8 "2015-05-05T09:06:14Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > IMHO, the difficulty with answering the question is that this unit (like similar formations in other countries) hardly ever get to put their skills into praxis (unlike the US military). So nobody knows for sure. Yeah - High time Poland declared war on someone to make sure that their military is up to scratch and to use up all the ordnance that’s near its use-by date. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/9 "2015-05-05T13:04:31Z")
You’re [Wesley Clark,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark) shouldn’t you know? Tripler I thought you guys all swapped Christmas cards and pysanki. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/10 "2015-05-05T13:43:43Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > IMHO, the difficulty with answering the question is that this unit (like similar formations in other countries) hardly ever get to put their skills into praxis (unlike the US military). So nobody knows for sure. Pretty sure GROM has been in the thick of things in both Iraq and Afghanistan and are pretty well-regarded in the special operations community. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/11 "2015-05-05T13:54:38Z")
Indeed, I wasn’t really aware of that. → [Polish zone in Iraq - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_zone_in_Iraq) → [Polish involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_involvement_in_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq) → [JW GROM - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_GROM) ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/12 "2015-05-05T14:22:00Z")
On re-reading the original post: “tier one” has a special meaning in the world of special forces. “[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier\_One\_(military)”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_One_(military)%E2%80%9D) redirects to “[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special\_Mission\_Unit”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Mission_Unit%E2%80%9D). According to the latter article, this designation is (only?) used in the United States and in Australia: > [@](#): > > The term Special Mission Unit or Special Missions Unit (SMU) is used to describe some elite[1] special operations forces around the world. The term has been applied to the Australian Defence Force’s Special Air Service Regiment and four United States special operations forces units. However, the article goes on to mention only the relevant units in the US and Australia (so much for “around the world”). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/13 "2015-05-05T15:23:43Z")
There actually is an [annual competition](http://warriorcompetition.com/home/index.php/7th-annual-warrior-competition,-april-19th-%E2%80%93-23rd-,-2015) among elite special forces teams from various countries. Poland didn’t field a team in last month’s event (or in any of the previous three events). So what does that tell you? I’m sure they’d like to think that they’re such badasses that they’d embarrass the other teams if they participated. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/14 "2015-05-05T15:53:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > There actually is an [annual competition](http://warriorcompetition.com/home/index.php/7th-annual-warrior-competition,-april-19th-%E2%80%93-23rd-,-2015) among elite special forces teams from various countries. Poland didn’t field a team in last month’s event (or in any of the previous three events). So what does that tell you? I’m sure they’d like to think that they’re such badasses that they’d embarrass the other teams if they participated. Afghanistan sent no less than 4 teams. Makes you wonder who was left to take care of the bad guys back home. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-polish-grom-considered-a-tier-one-unit/719272/15 "2015-05-05T16:08:33Z")
One thing to consider is that the Tier ranking is kind of vague at best, and is primarily a US thing related to funding. However, if the US units were to be ranked in terms of training and selectivity, I’d think they shake out like this: 1: 1st SFOD-D/CAG, DEVGRU/Seal Team 6, AFSOC operators 2: Army SF, SEALS 3: Ranger battalions 4: Airborne troops (173rd brigade, 82nd Airborne, 101st Airmobile) The USMC special ops units are sort of outside of USSOCOM, so I’m not sure where they’d rank- I suspect the Marine Raider regiment is probably on par with the Ranger battalions, but have no idea where Force Recon might stack up. I’d also guess that most Western nations’ highest level special operations forces are roughly equivalent to the Delta/DEVGRU types- UK/Australian SAS, Canadian Special Ops Regiment, GSG-9, GIGN, Sayeret Matkal, etc… It gets a little bit fuzzier with smaller, poorer and less martially inclined countries; e.g. is the best Italian special ops unit equivalent to DEVGRU? What about GROM?