All of that is undoubtedly true. It still disproves the notion that there was a mythical age where no one took toddlers to restaurants, so as not to disturb others. That simply never happened, at least not on a scale wide enough to create some “time that was.”
As someone above said, you may not be able to find a lot of stories about kids acting up in restaurants in the past, because eating out wasn’t as common as it is now. But there were churches, and kids went, and they misbehaved.
There have always been bad kids, and bad parents. And of course, there have always been good kids and good parents, who are having a bad day. Now we just see SO MANY MORE people, so much more frequently. That, along with a hefty dose of confirmation bias and people’s rosy memories of their own childhood, is the reason why certain types are convinced “kids today” are going to hell in a handbasket.
Children are as well behaved now as they have ever been, and in my opinion, there’s reason to believe they are BETTER behaved than they used to be, at least in my area of the developed world.
And once upon a time going out to the movies was a rare expensive treat and everybody dressed up and didn’t take their small screaming children and things are much different now and…
Wait, that’s not going to work.
I’m sure there were people who disrupted others’ enjoyment of movies back in the ‘50s, talking loudly and (if they were juvenile delinquents) ripping up the seats and such. Currently though, we have more ways to be annoying thanks to our electronic/mobile devices, being distractible to the point where movies are no longer so special, just behaving worse than in prior times, whatever. I do know that when I was just starting to go the movies, they never felt the need to make repeated announcements begging patrons to be quiet and turn off their cellphones in order to respect others’ enjoyment. And I don’t recall restaurants ever feeling the need to offer “good child” discounts to parents doing their job.*
*there have been cheap restaurants catering to families for eons, so I don’t think it’s a sudden new phenomenon for parents to be taking their young kids out for a meal.
We eat out with our kids (son 6, daughter 3) a couple of times a week and only rarely see ill-behaved kids - maybe once or twice every couple of months. But when you see 'em, they do make an impression.
In my experience, most of the ill-behaved kids I’ve seen are bored or tired. With mine, if they’re misbehaving, it’s usually boredom or, if we’re out with friends who have kids, the kids are egging each other on. I usually have some “Memory” tiles in my purse for my daughter, which she loves or my “special” book for my son (it’s a book I keep around the jot down ideas; my son loves being allowed to write in it).
If they can’t calm down, we’re outta there. If it ever gets to a point where we have to leave, even if it’s one kids misbehaving, both kids lose the privilege of going out to eat again for at least two weeks, sometimes longer.
I’ve heard stories of how my parents used to misbehave as kids. Hell, my grandparents have told me stories of how THEY got in trouble when THEY were kids!
There are some locations of Target and Publix that I avoid simply because the parents in the area have no concept of appropriate times to take their kids along to do the shopping. Usually they seem to plan shopping at times when they’d usually be feeding the kids or putting them down for a nap/bedtime, and the kids scream, wail, etc. in voices so loud you can hear them from across the entire store. It’s a little disturbing to say the least. It doesn’t happen all the time, but often enough at certain locations that I just don’t try to go there unless it’s the closest one and the others are way out of the way.
IME, most brewpubs aren’t kid friendly, especially not after happy hour.
Agreed. I’ve never worked as a waitress, but when I worked in a library that had a children’s section, I could usually tell when it was lunchtime/naptime/dinnertime/bedtime by the fact that there would be a temper tantrum thrown. Kids are far less likely to react well to their schedules being disrupted and are far more likely to show displeasure about it.
Agreed. The most misbehaved kids I usually see are tired, hungry/hangry*, sick, or overwhelmed by the sudden change in their schedule/environment.
*hangry: hungry to the point of having angry emotions about it
The thing is, if a restaurant can seat 20 groups (let’s make that 20 groups of four, for convenience sake), and the place is packed, and half the groups are all adults and half the groups are adults with kids, that’s 10 tables of kids. And if just ONE of those 10 tables has ONE kid who’s acting up, then it’s likely to be noticed by the other 19 tables. So, one person out of 80 has acted up. Assuming that there are two kids per table of the tables that have kids, that means that there are 20 kids in the restaurant, and only one acted up, but it’s going to make an impression on all the diners and all the staff. It’s really a case of one bad apple.
IME, the kid who is acting up is usually accompanied by at least one adult who is ignoring the kid. Most of the problem could be solved by one or more adults being a bit more sensitive to the kid’s needs, which might mean that the adult has to bring toys and snacks, instead of just thinking that s/he can bring a child along without considering that the child might get hungry, bored, tired, or need to pee when it’s inconvenient. Kids have an annoying way of not shutting off when they are not required to be social :rolleyes:. Or at least, some adults seem to think that they can just plop a kid down, tell him/her to behave, and then ignore the kid until they want to pay attention to him/her.
I don’t know about the 50’s but in the 60’s the ushers came down and you got one warning and then an invitation to leave.
I agree with everybody that it only takes one kid to stand out in a crowd and be remembered for running around and such. But if you change the scenario to booth seats with a wiggle worm behind you making a fuss. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. you wouldn’t think a little tike could jolt a whole bench but they can.
My mother always told my brother and me that we were very well behaved in public as children because she took pains to accommodate us-- i.e., plan outings around nap time, bring snacks and toys, etc. I see my stepson get cranky when he hasn’t had a snack so I always keep a pop tart or something in my bag when we are together, and I bring his iPod for games if it looks like a boring wait is ahead. I find it amazing how parents seem to think that restaurant time with their kids is somehow break time for them. It’s not break time; you are still on duty! If you need a break, hire a sitter. I’m another in the camp of, kids will be kids, but parents aren’t always parents, and both of these facts are hard to avoid.
I already told you- probably before you were born.
It was also in an age when naughty children were LEGALLY punished by spanking ( shock and horror ). If a child did misbehave it got a spanking, or a hiding, depending on how PO the father was ( sometimes the mother ).
No disturbing children in the churches I went to. Children does not automatically = badly behaved brats.
While children may not be going to hell in a handbasket, it sure seems that society is.
Sidetrack, but wearing flip flops and revealing / synthetic clothing on a plane is just plain stupid. In the event that the plane crashes and catches fire, guess who burns to death?
Just because crashes rarely happen does not mean that the one you take will not.
That’s still pretty fuzzy. Could you be a mite more specific?
Myself, I’m quite happy that spankings and hidings - I guess that a “hiding” is related to a belting? - are considered barbaric and are going out of style in civilized societies. I’ve been able to get well-behaved, polite and nice children without having to resort to abuse and violence, and I don’t think I’m an exceptionally skilled parent or have been blessed with children who are exceptionally well-behaved by nature (meaning: Any moderately intelligent and empathic parent could probably accomplish the same thing with their moderately intelligent children)
At least, you adhere to a tradition. A long-time tradition. See post # 25.
<hijack>
If my plane crashes, I think that synthetic vs. cotton clothing will be one of my lesser concerns
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This depends a lot on what restaurants you go to. In my little town in the sticks we have about half a dozen sit-down restaurants, so they’re all “family friendly” by default. If you go early enough in the evening there are kids at almost every table so the odds of a meltdown happening somewhere are high. It’s often noticeable to us (as non-parents who have not learned to tune such things out) but rarely so irritating as to cause us any consternation.
When we’re out of town (which we often are) and have more options, we tend to gravitate toward restaurants that you wouldn’t immediately peg as “family-friendly”–slightly more upscale bistros, ethnic places, and the like. And in those places it almost never happens.
So that’s part of why I think it seems so variable.
We eat out two nights a week, usually. Rarely see kids, as we specifically eat at places that are not family joints, and strive for an 8 o’clock or later seating.
I remember being very badly behaved in restaurants as a young child. It was so boring to sit there while the adults talked about things I didn’t care about and wouldn’t listen to me and there was so much interesting stuff going on around that I was not allowed to look at or listen to or touch. My mother took me outside or something till I was about 6, but after that I think she gave up to an extent, because I remember her letting me do some pretty heinous things a few times (maybe she was tired those times) as well as being punished for misbehaving afterward several times. I never put food on anyone or purposely annoyed anyone. I just wandered off from the table and looked at things and got in peoples way and eavesdropped - bad enough. I probably started behaving well at restaurants around age 13 or 14.
My son never was quite that bad. His ill manners at restaurants usually consisted of lying down on the bench seat and complaining of wanting to go home. Sometimes he sat under the table. He has been much better since he became an older teen, and we go out less often too.
As for parents who are ignoring their child’s outbursts, I usually think that they are attempting not to give negative attention. Often when a child misbehaves like that, it is thought to be a demand for attention. The parent ignores it in order to try to get it to stop, thinking that by giving it attention it will simply encourage it. They aren’t going to do something they believe counter productive for their child just to make strangers think they’re a better parent. I suppose some of them might just not care, but overall I give people the benefit of the doubt whenever I can. I don’t really believe this theory of children trying to get negative attention - but I know it is widely held and don’t think holding it makes them bad parents.
It is pretty widely held, and to some extent, I sometimes hold it myself (although more often I think, “huh…if my kid needs attention that badly, maybe I should give her some attention”). The bad part isn’t ignoring bad behavior to extinguish it. The bad part is that too many parents *continue to ignore it when their kid stops behaving badly, or begins behaving well. For Skinner’s sake, people! It’s not enough to ignore bad behavior! The second - and I mean the second - they pause for breath, you’ve got to jump on that “good” behavior and encourage it! That’s when you give them attention.
I was just at a high end resturant within the last month. When i was seated, I heard a child talking and commented to my companion ‘Little kids don’t belong in a place like this.’
Before my dinner was over the child was shrieking.
In the summer I was at a family friendly restaurant with several grand-nieces and grand-nephews for a couple hour long dinner. I was compelled to comment to my nieces and nephews at how well-behaved their children were in the midst of several other children who were not.
I think generally it’s training.
Howsomeever there is common sense involved too. While I might have done, I have no specific recollection of attnding nice restaurants as a toddler (while I do have several specific memories of church at that age). Based on what I have read, it seems today some parents are more reluctant to entrust their children to the care of baby-sitters or simply do not realize that the French Laundrey is inapprpriate for a 2 year old.
