# are the US media to biased toward Israel ? (video) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820 "2006-08-15T13:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/81 "2006-08-17T16:48:13Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > You have linked to the websites of anti-Israel organizations > [@Sevastopol](#): > > You’ve mistaken me for someone else. Not unless there’s another **Sevastopol** posting on this board. Just as recently as the “Please explain the Middle East Crisis” thread (in the past week or so) you posted a link to [PalestineMonitor.org](http://PalestineMonitor.org) which has the expected anti-Israeli viewpoint. Remember - I noted that the website is supposedly run by various Palestinian non-governmental groups, but neither they nor any individuals were identified, and I asked you for actual names of any persons or groups responsible for the site? I asked you twice, actually, and never got an answer. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > As to vast resources, does “oil” ring any bells? You think funds derived from oil revenues and Western fears of being deprived of sources of oil don’t have any impact on opinions and news coverage? > [@Sevastopol](#): > > Not vis a vis Israel, no. Sorry, this dodge does not fly. Here are excerpts from [an interesting piece](http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5342) (commenting on the Mearsheimer & Walt “Israel Lobby Is Under My Bed” report that came out earlier this year).\* Arab Lobbying Efforts in America The authors (Mearsheimer and Walt) pretend there is no effective counterweight on the Palestinian or Arab side to this pro-Israel juggernaut. They ignore the proliferation of stridently anti-Israel Middle East studies centers on campuses across the country, which receive funding from the Gulf states and wealthy Arab donors. Professor Walt’s own university recently received a $20 million gift from a Saudi prince for a new Islamic studies program. Georgetown University received a similar gift from the same donor. Perhaps to show its appreciation, Georgetown decided not to allow an anti-terrorism conference to take place at a hotel on its campus, but helped sponsor and promote a Palestinian solidarity conference, replete with calls for Israel’s destruction by various speakers. The Saudis have spoken openly of how they can influence officials of the State Department and the intelligence community while they are employed by the American government, with the knowledge that when their government careers are over, they can be set up with far more lucrative arrangements at Middle East studies centers, or lobbying groups or public relations firms that promote the Saudi line. The former Saudi Ambassador, Prince Bander bin Sultan, openly boasted of his success in cultivating powerful Americans. “If the reputation then builds that the Saudis take care of friends when they leave office, you would be surprised how much better friends you have who are just coming into office.” The list of ex-office holders who propagate pro-Saudi spin is a long and disgraceful one…The authors try to minimize the pro-Arab lobbying effort in America, and create the Goliath of Israel in its path. But Saudi money, which is much more substantial than that of the pro-Israel lobby, is very much at work, very often against American interests, in a variety of ways: radicalizing prison clerics, and mosque imams, setting up Wahhabbist schools, lobbying Congress against energy independence, and supporting academic chairs and policy centers that hire professors who routinely bash American policies and America itself…the same Saudi Prince who gave $20 million to Harvard bragged of his recent 5% purchase of News Corporation stock giving him the power to influence news reporting. This is a worrisome development, for he also owned a 30% stake in an Arab TV network, ART TV, that spews forth anti-Semitism and anti-Western agitprop. Foreign money, as long as it is anti-Israel, is worth its weight in gold (or oil). "\* ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/82 "2006-08-17T17:21:59Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Wildfire quit posting these things. When I saw it I knew that an hour long tape would get Zero weight. I could predict 5 posters who would decend in self rightous fury. They would reinforce each other. Yiu can not win. Do not try. Well, this is just more _ad hominem_. I really wish we could have a discussion on the Middle East without mudslinging from either side. > [@Randomer13](#): > > …if millions of refugees came to florida, called it their promissed land, set up camp then decided to boot everyone out and call it their own. Then… their could be a problem. However for some unkown reason doing this in Palestine is acceptable, the reason for this? I’ve been thinking about this, and here might be a better analogy for a US audience: Imagine if the Cherokee were to take their casino profits and use them to begin buying up land in North Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina (in other words, their former homeland). Now imagine further that when they reached a critical mass of ownership and population, they declared themselves the sovereign nation of Cherokee and (work with me here) they have the military might to protect their borders against all comers. Moreover, they gain international recognition (in most quarters). Suppose further that non-Cherokees still living inside the Cherokee borders weren’t particularly happy with this development. And that they felt they were treated as second-class citizens in this newly-declared state. And that they had nearby friends and family outside the borders of Cherokee who were sympathetic to their plight. What means (if any) would the left-behind group and its allies be justified in using to fight the Cherokee state? What means would the Cherokee state be justified in using to preserve itself and its citizens? It’s not a perfect analogy. The religious element of the fight is missing. Others better versed than I in Middle East history may find other ways the analogy breaks down (or might modify and expand on the analogy). But I think maybe the analogy could at least give US citizens a rough sense of the struggle. > [@Weirddave](#): > > Sure, in theory, but when the targeted people don’t want to go, what are you left with? Can you give me one example, in practice, where an entire people just up and left voluntarily for somewhere else under similar circumstances? Not that I’m advocating ethnic cleansing (I am not) but since you ask for historical precedent, the [removal of the Chickasaw tribe to the Oklahoma territory](http://www.tolatsga.org/chick.html) (scroll down) comes reasonably close. I wouldn’t call the exodus “voluntary,” as it happened under the implicit threat of military action. It was more that the Chickasaws were resigned to their fate, and they went (mostly) peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/83 "2006-08-17T17:28:00Z")
> [@Wildfire\*\*MM](#): > > Exactly. The Ghandi way worked one time only Martin Luther King, Jr. might disagree with you. If it is international sympathy you desire, passive resistance is the way to go. Unfortunately, that approach seems incompatible with Islamic tradition and culture. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/84 "2006-08-17T18:30:28Z")
Gandhi’s and MLK’s approach worked because the people they were inspiring to passively resist could bring the local economies to a halt by not working. The Israelis aren’t dependent on the Palestinians for labour, so it won’t work for them. ---
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/85 "2006-08-17T18:44:08Z")
> [@Randomer13](#): > > Hezbollah killed 90% military, Israel killed over 90% civilians. You do know those numbers are way off, right? The current numbers for Israeli casualties: 43 civilians, 116 soldiers (27% civilians) For Hezbollah/Lebanon, the numbers are not conclusive, as Hezbollah does not reveal its casualties. Hezbollah confirmed only 65 casualties, while Israel estimates are 550 (source: [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict). 8 more from Ammal. Total Lebanon civilians casualties: 727-1009. So it’s 56-90%. I assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. As for the reason for the difference, I realize it’s probably not a standard way of debating, but I feel this image says is better than I could. \ Note: As far as I’m concerned, you may replace “Palestinian” with “Hezbollah”. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/86 "2006-08-17T18:44:29Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Gandhi’s and MLK’s approach worked because the people they were inspiring to passively resist could bring the local economies to a halt by not working. The Israelis aren’t dependent on the Palestinians for labour, so it won’t work for them. There are an estimated [100,000](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/ispaecon.html) legal and illegal Palestinians working in Israel. The population of Irael is a little over 6M. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/87 "2006-08-17T18:47:11Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Gandhi’s and MLK’s approach worked because the people they were inspiring to passively resist could bring the local economies to a halt by not working. The Israelis aren’t dependent on the Palestinians for labour, so it won’t work for them. Don’t agree. Gandhi’s and MLK’s approach worked because they were able to transcend the “us vs. them” rhetoric and appeal directly to the conciences of those they believed where actively or tacitly supporting injustice. They worked because the British and the US both believed that they _were_ just; thus they played to the ideals of the target. In my opinion, the same tactics would “work” on the Israelis - but of course, that depends on there being an injustice to highlight. It would work (for example) in protesting actual injustices, such as the denial of a Palistinian state. But that of course is _not_ the real goal of the terrorists - it is the destruction of the Israeli state. Put it this way. Gandhi-like tactics would never have worked against any of the 20th centuries’ totalitarians - because they cared nothing for justice. Equally, Gandhi-like tactics would not work if what Gandhi sought was not independance of India, but destruction of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/88 "2006-08-17T18:53:20Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > It’s not a perfect analogy. You can say _that_ again. Have you read some ME history? Or even some of Finn’s posts (one available upthread)?. Unlike North Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina, **there was never a sovereign nation of Palestine**. Methinks it changes the picture somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/89 "2006-08-17T21:05:32Z")
And there is not a _sovereign_ state of Tennessee, North Carolina or Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/90 "2006-08-17T21:10:10Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > FYI, a recent [independent review of the BBC’s coverage of the Israel/Palestine conflict](http://www.bbcgovernors.co.uk/docs/reviews/panel_report_final.pdf) [pdf] commissioned following such complaints. Yeah, but it was written by self-hating Jews, I’m sure. :rolleyes: Has anything changed since these words were penned by the world’s greatest Jew Hater? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/91 "2006-08-17T21:42:56Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Yeah, but it was written by self-hating Jews, I’m sure. :rolleyes: > > Has anything changed since these words were penned by the world’s greatest Jew Hater? > [@](#): > > People are scared in this country [the US], to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God’s world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust. Maybe not the _greatest_ … but when someone starts snidely placing the “Jewish Lobby” in the same category as “Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin”, you gotta start wondering about his objectivity. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/92 "2006-08-17T21:52:46Z")
I think “pro-Israel lobby” would be a better descriptor. Certainly not all Jews think the state of Israel was or is a good idea, or that the actions of Israel are always above reproach. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/93 "2006-08-17T21:55:24Z")
(Oh, and I hasten to clarify that I am not buying into the other poster’s comparison of the por-Israel lobby to Hitler, Mussolini, _et al_.) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/94 "2006-08-17T22:03:28Z")
Y’know, if you told me 10 years ago that we’d be seeing a wave of fanatical anti-semitism wash over the world, I’d have thought you got a bad batch of crack. And now in 2006, when even Desmond Tutu compares Israel to Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin, I think the we can take as proved the mainstreaming of worldwide anti-semitism. That he didn’t even think how his words would be interpreted! He thought this would be a simple, uncontroversial statement! That he could compare Israel and/or the Jewish lobby to Hitler in the same piece where he claims to want peace based on justice! And why do we see this wave of anti-semitism? Not because of the actions of the Jews…but because anti-semitism is so useful politically that even Desmond Tutu feels he can use a bit of that action. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/95 "2006-08-17T22:06:47Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > (Oh, and I hasten to clarify that I am not buying into the other poster’s comparison of the por-Israel lobby to Hitler, Mussolini, _et al_.) Wait, you read the above paragraph, right? How can you claim that Tutu didn’t explicitly compare “the Jewish lobby” to Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin ? It’s there in black and white. He knew what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/96 "2006-08-17T22:10:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Wait, you read the above paragraph, right? How can you claim that Tutu didn’t explicitly compare “the Jewish lobby” to Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin ? It’s there in black and white. No, you’re not reading _me_ right. I mean to say that I do not think the comparison is apt. (And I didn’t catch that the quote was from Tutu. I thought a poster was being quoted.) ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/97 "2006-08-17T22:14:26Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Has anything changed since these words were penned by the world’s greatest Jew Hater? You mean besides Israel withdrawing from most of the occupied lands? [/quot=Tutu]Israel has three options: revert to the previous stalemated situation; exterminate all Palestinians; or - I hope - to strive for peace based on justice, based on withdrawal from all the occupied territories, [/quote] They just did that, and look what it got them. It got them attacked by Hezbollah. You wanna try again? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/98 "2006-08-17T22:15:17Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > No, you’re not reading _me_ right. I mean to say that I do not think the comparison is apt. > > (And I didn’t catch that the quote was from Tutu. I thought a poster was being quoted.) Heh, I got it. (It was my fault that you didn’t catch that the quote was from Tutu, for not labelling the quote more clearly.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/99 "2006-08-17T22:18:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Y’know, if you told me 10 years ago that we’d be seeing a wave of fanatical anti-semitism wash over the world, I’d have thought you got a bad batch of crack. > > And now in 2006, when even Desmond Tutu compares Israel to Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin, I think the we can take as proved the mainstreaming of worldwide anti-semitism. OK, let’s nip this in the bud. Opposition to Israel is _not_ tantamount to anti-Semitism. Let’s avoid _argumentum ad hominem_ in this discussion, can we please? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820/100 "2006-08-17T22:31:02Z")
Opposition to Israel is not tantamount to anti-Semitism. Comparison of Israel and/or the Jewish lobby to Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin **IS** tantamount to anti-Semitism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-the-us-media-to-biased-toward-israel-video/368820.md?page=6)