# Are their language or cultural standards for capitalizing people's names that differ from English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960 "2014-10-10T13:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/1 "2014-10-10T13:39:34Z")
In mainstream America and mainstream usage of the English language I think it is always standard practice to capitalize the first letter only of all personal names including first names and family names, with rare exceptions that are special (such as “e. e. cummings” or “ADELE”). Is this different in other languages or other cultures, when writing names in the English alphabet? I know Spanish uses far fewer capital letters than English, for example, but this does not seem to be the case for personal names. Is it ever a sign of disrespect to capitalize the first letter of somebody’s name in a list, if they have written it entirely in lowercase? Especially, a sign of cultural or linguistic obliviousness? [P.S. sorry for typo in title, I meant “Are there…”!] ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/2 "2014-10-10T14:24:46Z")
In the German language, they also capitalise nouns and sometimes adjectives. [http://video.about.com/german/Learn-German--Capitalization-Rules.htm](http://video.about.com/german/Learn-German--Capitalization-Rules.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/3 "2014-10-10T14:31:17Z")
Dutch has some intricate rules about capitalizing prepositions and articles in last names - eg. van, ter, ten, de, van der, van den, etc. When preceded by a first name, there’s no capital: Jan van Kampen. Jan Van Kampen is wrong. But when preceded by something other than a first name, for instance ‘mevrouw’ (Mrs.) or ‘meneer’ (Mr.) , there \*is \*a capital: Daar loopt meneer Van Kampen - there goes Mr. Van Kampen. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/4 "2014-10-10T14:32:01Z")
My firstname’s full form is four words, of which only the first and fourth are capitalized; this is pretty common for multi-word firstnames in Spanish (names like _Francisco de Asís_ or _María de las Mercedes_, where the whole thing is a single name). My parental lastname is three words, of which the second one is not capitalized: it is in the form _Apellidofrecuente de Sitio_ (Commonlastname from Place), relatively frequent in some parts of northern Spain. In general, if a part of a name happens to be a preposition or article, it will not be capitalized in Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Milton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mr.Milton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Milton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/5 "2014-10-10T14:33:31Z")
In German, all proper nouns are capitalized, but where a preposition is a part of a name, it is not. To do so would be a faux pas. For example: Manfred von Richthofen OK Manfred Von Richthofen Ignorant Auslander The “von” means this person is nobility, so the Engish equivalent would be “Manfred of Richthofen”. I believe if you were to look him up in a correct German alphabetical list, he should correctly be under R instead of V. But at my work (in the US), the Outlook Adddress book puts all the “von-” names under V with both upper and lowercase "V"s. There’s also names like Ursula von der Leyen. File under L, not V or D. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/6 "2014-10-10T14:39:45Z")
So what about ‘Dort geht Herr — Richthofen’? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/7 "2014-10-10T14:40:31Z")
I have seen documents (I think written in Flemish or something Germanic) where the convention was to fully capitalise the surname of the individual (i.e. John SMITH) - but I am not sure if this was just the writing style for the sort of documents I was looking at (archaeological reports). ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/8 "2014-10-10T14:47:17Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I have seen documents (I think written in Flemish or something Germanic) where the convention was to fully capitalise the surname of the individual (i.e. John SMITH) - but I am not sure if this was just the writing style for the sort of documents I was looking at (archaeological reports). I have seen that standard applied to romanized Chinese names. Presumably this is for the benefit of westerners who, between unfamiliarity with Chinese names in general and different ordering conventions, would not immediately know which name is the surname. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/9 "2014-10-10T15:06:27Z")
In Welsh, there are a few digraphs which are counted as a single letter. Rarely, both of these are capitalized. I know a woman called LLinos, for example. In the traditional surnames, “ap” and “ferch” (originally nouns meaning “son” (_mab_) and “daughter” (_merch_)) are not capitalized. In general, though, capitalization follows English. In English, ff- names are traditionally not capitalized, as the double-lowercase-F is just a stylized rendition of a fancy capital F in the first place. Can’t find a cite for this, so I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/10 "2014-10-10T15:32:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I have seen documents (I think written in Flemish or something Germanic) where the convention was to fully capitalise the surname of the individual (i.e. John SMITH) - but I am not sure if this was just the writing style for the sort of documents I was looking at (archaeological reports). > [@leahcim](#): > > I have seen that standard applied to romanized Chinese names. Presumably this is for the benefit of westerners who, between unfamiliarity with Chinese names in general and different ordering conventions, would not immediately know which name is the surname. This is quite common in Africa (I have seen it especially in francophone countries), where depending on ethnicity the surname can come in various positions. Capitalization enables you to tell which name is regarded as the surname. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/11 "2014-10-10T15:41:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is quite common in Africa (I have seen it especially in francophone countries), where depending on ethnicity the surname can come in various positions. Capitalization enables you to tell which name is regarded as the surname. I’ve seen this in a Francophone African country too (people there might put either given name or surname first, depending on preference). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/12 "2014-10-10T15:52:23Z")
That must be why scam emails are always from Mr Smith Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/13 "2014-10-10T16:18:23Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > I have seen that standard applied to romanized Chinese names. Adding Romanized Japanese to the list of languages that do this, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/14 "2014-10-10T16:34:10Z")
Here’s a bit of baseball trivia – in the season just ended, the New York Mets had three players in their lineup who had surnames beginning with a lower-case letter: Travis d’Arnaud, Matt den Dekker, and Jacob deGrom. All three wwere in the starting lineup on August 23. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/15 "2014-10-10T17:01:52Z")
English capitalized nouns up until the 18th century. Look at the US Constitution, nearly all the nouns are capitalized. But in the Declaration of Independence, some are, but most are not. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/16 "2014-10-10T21:04:31Z")
I haven’t seen mention of Irish or Scottish McNames. McArthur or MacArthur types with a capital after the Mc- or Mac-. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/17 "2014-10-10T21:10:23Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > I haven’t seen mention of Irish or Scottish McNames. McArthur or MacArthur types with a capital after the Mc- or Mac-. Also Irish names like O’Hara and Anglo-Norman names like FitzHugh. > [@jtur88](#): > > English capitalized nouns up until the 18th century. Look at the US Constitution, nearly all the nouns are capitalized. But in the Declaration of Independence, some are, but most are not. The OP is asking about people’s names, not nouns in general. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/18 "2014-10-10T21:33:08Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Is it ever a sign of disrespect to capitalize the first letter of somebody’s name in a list, if they have written it entirely in lowercase? Especially, a sign of cultural or linguistic obliviousness? Yes and yes. And laziness. Leave the case as is, don’t mess with it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/19 "2014-10-11T01:23:04Z")
Capitalizing surnames (don’t say last names) in East Asian or Hungarian names solves two problems - dumb people assuming Smith John must be Mr. John, as well as smart but overthinking people assuming that the order is the other way. And then it gets swapped multiple times. I have also seen the capitalization in French names. I have no idea why they do that. It doesn’t hurt though. I have also noticed it in US military personnel. I don’t know if it’s a particular branch or if I was seeing patterns that don’t exist. I don’t have a right to tell anytone how to spell their name but I must admit that I die inside a little when I see someone spell their own name like “Mcdonald.” > [@Mr.Milton](#): > > The “von” means this person is nobility, so the Engish equivalent would be “Manfred of Richthofen”. I believe if you were to look him up in a correct German alphabetical list, he should correctly be under R instead of V. But at my work (in the US), the Outlook Adddress book puts all the “von-” names under V with both upper and lowercase "V"s. Well, their family was **formerly** noble. If you were born before 1919 you \*might \*get away with claiming the von has a significance beyond being part of your name; otherwise it’s putting on airs. Nowadays you can become a German noble if you have an ego and lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Mama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Atomic\_Mama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Mama)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960/20 "2014-10-11T03:18:10Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Dutch has some intricate rules about capitalizing prepositions and articles in last names - eg. van, ter, ten, de, van der, van den, etc. > > When preceded by a first name, there’s no capital: Jan van Kampen. Jan Van Kampen is wrong. But when preceded by something other than a first name, for instance ‘mevrouw’ (Mrs.) or ‘meneer’ (Mr.) , there \*is \*a capital: Daar loopt meneer Van Kampen - there goes Mr. Van Kampen. Thanks! I always felt there was a valid reason why part of my name is spelled (correctly) as … van. It also looks pretty, typographically, and confuses the bejeezus out of computers 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-their-language-or-cultural-standards-for-capitalizing-peoples-names-that-differ-from-english/700960.md?page=2)