# Are there 366,000 stupid Californians? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826 "2018-02-14T13:24:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/41 "2018-02-14T18:54:41Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I think when I retire I’ll start an initiative to get rid of the initiative process. It’ll be my hobby. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Silence the voice of the people! How dare they demand things. Meh. The California initiative process, which takes the form of binding referendums, has given us some pretty [del]stupid[/del] ill-advised (at least in hindsight) outcomes, Prop. 13 and term limits being among the most egregious. I used to sign all petitions to get initiatives on the ballot, on the well-meaning assumption that _“Hell, there ain’t hardly anything that’s too dangerous to at least talk about.”_ Turns out that assuming that “talk[ing] about it” was a given was optimistic, _at best_ (full disclosure: I wised up in this regard several years before the Knight Initiative came along) Nowadays, I find myself liking the non-binding referendum model that is used in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/42 "2018-02-14T18:56:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I read an article that had it as 5% of voters. This source has it as 5% of voters in a recent election. > > _“With the state authorization, Jensen is now clear to start collecting signatures to get the initiative on the ballot this November. She’ll need to collect valid signatures from 365,880 registered voters—five percent of the total votes cast for governor in the November 2014 general election—in order to qualify. She has until August 8 to do so.”_ That’s a different measure, 5% of the number of votes cast for governor, as opposed to 5% of eligible voters. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/43 "2018-02-14T18:59:21Z")
A water main burst in the San Fernando valley and there was some flooding on some streets last year. More than half the people in the area were screaming about how can we waste our resources. I had to explain to them that if the water doesn’t burst in a few different areas and we flood, the building where the main burst would be gone, exploded, blown to pieces, everyone inside dead, NO water service for weeks and a major flood. So, yes, there are at least 366,000 stupid people here and actually anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/44 "2018-02-14T19:02:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Meh. The California initiative process, which takes the form of binding referendums, has given us some pretty [del]stupid[/del] ill-advised (at least in hindsight) outcomes, Prop. 13 and term limits being among the most egregious. > > I used to sign all petitions to get initiatives on the ballot, on the well-meaning assumption that _“Hell, there ain’t hardly anything that’s too dangerous to at least talk about.”_ > > Turns out that assuming that “talk[ing] about it” was a given was optimistic, _at best_ (full disclosure: I wised up in this regard several years before the Knight Initiative came along) > > Nowadays, I find myself liking the non-binding referendum model that is used in Hawaii. What about the **Gas Tax Repeal Initiative**? Are you signing that or are you willing to let the legislature put their hand deeper into your pocket? (you’re in CA right?) The people didn’t get to vote on implementing that tax, but it appears we’ll get to vote on repealing it. Seems fair all things considered. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/45 "2018-02-14T19:05:06Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The author of the ballot initiative, Cheriel Jensen [says](https://respectfulinsolence.com/2018/02/14/a-california-ballot-initiative-that-sounds-as-though-it-were-written-by-mike-adams/): > > _“We, Californians, have the right in our person and families to live, as free as possible, from toxic chemical or toxic process-caused cancer, paralysis, structural or functional birth defects, autism spectrum disorder, diminished intelligence, gut cell genetic alteration, seizures; pregnancy complications, developmental complications, cellular structural damage; structural and functional nerve damage, demyelination, brain tumors, Guillain-Barre syndrome, ALS; fluorosis, brittle bones; joint damage; altered thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, cortisone, sperm counts, pineal gland calcification, early or delayed puberty, extra heavy or lengthy menstrual bleeding, reproductive system damage, or other harmful hormone related impacts; Parkinson’s; Alzheimer’s; eye damage such as reduced vision, dry eyes, twitching eye lids, red eyes, watery eyes, cataracts, macular degeneration, blindness; hearing damage; intestinal bacteria die-off or alteration; chemical bums, rash, eczema, abnormal hair loss, photosensitivity, inflammation, spontaneous nose bleeding, idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura; breathing difficulty, asthma, voice volume or frequency losses, repeated coughing, choking, rhinitis, chemical sensitivity, allergy, anaphylaxis, immune system deregulation, lupus, fibromyalgia; pancreas, kidney, spleen or liver damage, diabetes; interference with sleep, inability to concentrate; pain, headache, racing heart; body retention of the toxic substance or its’ breakdown products; invasion of living cell wall structures by nanoparticles; or changes to the body’s genetic material, or other adverse conditions”_. Good Gawd, woman, if you want to run a multigenerational experiment to determine the effects of putting an entire ecosystem and its population into a hermetically sealed bubble, could you at least choose a somewhat more limited geographical arena, with a smaller population? Or rent Bio-Dome. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/46 "2018-02-14T19:21:20Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Meh. The California initiative process, which takes the form of binding referendums, has given us some pretty [del]stupid[/del] ill-advised (at least in hindsight) outcomes, Prop. 13 and term limits being among the most egregious. > > I used to sign all petitions to get initiatives on the ballot, on the well-meaning assumption that _“Hell, there ain’t hardly anything that’s too dangerous to at least talk about.”_ > > Turns out that assuming that “talk[ing] about it” was a given was optimistic, _at best_ (full disclosure: I wised up in this regard several years before the Knight Initiative came along) > > Nowadays, I find myself liking the non-binding referendum model that is used in Hawaii. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > What about the **Gas Tax Repeal Initiative**? Are you signing that or are you willing to let the legislature put their hand deeper into your pocket? (you’re in CA right?) The people didn’t get to vote on implementing that tax, but it appears we’ll get to vote on repealing it. Seems fair all things considered. Yes, I am in California. Hence my distrust for the notion that our initiative process is a panacea of any kind. For the record, I am voting AGAINST the **Gas Tax Repeal Initiative** (assuming that it makes the ballot). I’m also voting against the recall of Josh Newman. I don’t sit in either chamber of the state Assembly, but my votes were counted when we put in the members who do. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/47 "2018-02-14T19:27:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The people didn’t get to vote on implementing that tax, but it appears we’ll get to vote on repealing it. Seems fair all things considered. No, _all things considered_ it DOESN’T seem “fair;” it seems bass-ackwards. Send them to Sacramento to take care of our business, then micromanage them so they can’t? Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/48 "2018-02-14T19:30:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Good Gawd, woman, if you want to run a multigenerational experiment to determine the effects of putting an entire ecosystem and its population into a hermetically sealed bubble, could you at least choose a somewhat more limited geographical arena, with a smaller population? > > Or rent Bio-Dome. We’ll throw in Stephen Baldwin and Pauly Shore for free. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/49 "2018-02-14T19:41:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No, _all things considered_ it DOESN’T seem “fair;” it seems bass-ackwards. Send them to Sacramento to take care of our business, then micromanage them so they can’t? > > Fuck that. Come on bro, it’s the California legislature. What on earth makes you think they don’t need micromanaged. The same legislature that passed a bill, SB 1383: to **Control Cow Flatulence**? (SB 1383 requires the state to cut methane emissions from dairy cows and other animals by 40% by 2030.) They’ve got some serious reengineering to do to get the emissions of those cows within range. I think micromanaging the CA legislature is a fine idea. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/50 "2018-02-14T20:03:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I read an article that had it as 5% of voters. This source has it as 5% of voters in a recent election. > > “With the state authorization, Jensen is now clear to start collecting signatures to get the initiative on the ballot this November. She’ll need to collect valid signatures from 365,880 registered voters—five percent of the total votes cast for governor in the November 2014 general election—in order to qualify. She has until August 8 to do so.” > [@RickJay](#): > > That’s a different measure, 5% of the number of votes cast for governor, as opposed to 5% of eligible voters. Why yes Rick, it is different. Thanks for pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/51 "2018-02-14T20:18:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > We also have fantastic food, beautiful natural scenery of mountains, desert, old growth forests, alpine meadows, and coastal ranges, some of the most progressive political and social movements in the country, one of the great land grant public research university systems, Caltech, the Golden Gate Bridge, the world’s sixth largest economy, zero publc monuments to the Confederacy, and a metric fuckton of sun. So putting up with a few hundred thousand nutters is like coping with drought, living with the nation’s highest gas prices, and enduring the occasional significant earthquake. Totally worth it. > > Stranger It’s a wonderful place and I love living here, but [let’s not go too overboard:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Confederate_monuments_and_memorials) > [@](#): > > There are at least eight public spaces with Confederate monuments in California and at least four former spaces.[4] > > Monuments[edit] > San Diego: Confederate Soldiers Memorial (1948), at city-owned Mount Hope Cemetery[168] > Santa Ana: CSA monument with the inscription “to honor the sacred memory of the pioneers who built Orange County after their valiant efforts to defend the Cause of Southern Independence” in Santa Ana Cemetery. Installed in 2004.[169][170] > > Inhabited places[edit] > Confederate Corners: Established 1868. Formerly known as Springtown, it was renamed after a group of Southerners settled there in the late 1860s.[171][4] > Fort Bragg: originally a US Army garrison named in June 1857 for then US Army officer Braxton Bragg who later became a Confederate General and was abandoned by October 1864.[172][4][173] This city was founded in 1889 near the site of the former garrison. In 2015, members of the California Legislative Black Caucus petitioned the mayor of Fort Bragg to change the name due to general’s links to the Confederacy.[174][175] > > Roads[edit] > Los Angeles: Johnston Street in Lincoln Heights, named for CSA Gen. Albert Sidney Johnston.[4] > There are at least four remaining markers of the Jefferson Davis Highway in the state of California including the following:[4][176] > Bakersfield in Pioneer Village (1942, rededicated 1968) > Hornbrook (1944) > Lebec at Fort Tejon (1956, rededicated 1976) > Winterhaven at Fort Yuma > > Schools[edit] > Anaheim: Savanna High School (1961) mascot has always been Johnny Rebel and a fiberglass statue of a Confederate soldier stood in the courtyard from 1964 until 2009[177] when it was removed due to deterioration. The school colors are red and grey and the school fields the Savanna Mighty Marching Rebel Band and Color Guard. > > Mountains and recreation[edit] > Jeff Davis Peak Elevation: 9065 ft / 2763 m 36.637°N 119.897°W in the Mokelumne Wilderness[178] mapped by the USGS in 1889; “however, it may have long been used locally, as many of the inhabitants of nearby Summit City (now abandoned [in the late 1860s]) were Confederate sympathizers during the civil war. Jefferson Davis (1809–89) was president of the Confederacy, 1861–65.”[179] > Pickett Peak: named for Confederate General George Pickett Elevation: 9118 ft / 2779 m 38.756°N 119.903°W in National Forest, near the Mokelumne Wilderness[180] > Fortuna: Pickett Peak Campground operated by the National Forest Service[181] > Mine[edit] > > Stonewall Jackson Mine, San Diego County, circa 1872 > San Diego County: Stonewall Jackson Mine (1870-1893), the richest gold mine in southern California history[182] ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/52 "2018-02-14T20:20:16Z")
The leader of the CA state house advanced a proposal to [criminalize restaurants voluntarily giving people plastic straws.](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB1884) The criminal penalties were later stricken. Yes, a whole lot of dumb assery here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/53 "2018-02-14T20:25:08Z")
You can thank/blame my state of South Dakota for getting the ball rolling by being the [first state in the nation](http://www.iandrinstitute.org/states/state.cfm?id=24) to adopt the initiative and referendum process. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/54 "2018-02-14T20:30:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > The only flavor of stupid you need to get an initiative on the ballot is “stupid enough to sign a petition that somebody waves in front of you.” True. It’s often easier to just sign their stupid petition than to refuse, and get harangued by them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/55 "2018-02-14T21:18:44Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The leader of the CA state house advanced a proposal to [criminalize restaurants voluntarily giving people plastic straws.](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB1884) The criminal penalties were later stricken. Yes, a whole lot of dumb assery here. That’s actually an existing law in Carmel, just recently passed. Not just straws, but eating utensils as well. The process was driven by elementary school kids at The Carmel River School. It’s part of the quaintness. Once in awhile the referendum process serves a needed purpose, but mostly it’s just about “there oughtta be a law!”. I almost always vote no on all of them. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/56 "2018-02-14T22:37:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m against this, but maybe that’s the cell phone radiation talking. > > Yours in good health thru the purity of essence of our precious bodily fluids, > Gen. Jack D. Ripper I’ve been having a shitty week, but that made me grin. Thank you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/57 "2018-02-14T23:22:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > True. It’s often easier to just sign their stupid petition than to refuse, and get harangued by them. I just tell them I never sign petitions. Which is pretty much true. If an initiative actually gets enough support to get on the ballot, I can study it then in detail. If not, I didn’t have to waste my time. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/58 "2018-02-15T00:26:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No, there are not 366,000 stupid Californians. The number is much higher than that. There are that many stupid Californians within a 40 mile radius from my house! I enjoy running into the Gas Tax assholes. Gives me several minutes of pleasure detailing loudly and publically how stupid they are and how idiotic their ideas are. Venting can be good. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/59 "2018-02-15T01:10:36Z")
She wants to ban the chlorination of municipal water supplies? I hate to think how much sickness and death that would cause. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826/60 "2018-02-15T01:18:37Z")
There were at least that many on the freeway in front of me this morning on my commute to work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-366-000-stupid-californians/808826.md?page=4)