# Are there a lot more BS email rumors against Obama than there were against W. Bush? And if so, why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333 "2010-04-25T20:43:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/21 "2010-04-26T14:32:26Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Tell 'ya what. I stipulate that there have been ten gazillion Palin rumors, and that all ten gazillion have been false. OK? > > Now, I assume that you asked this question in order to develop an answer to the question in the original post; may we have it, please? Well, the OP links to a Salon story with the thesis that we may reach some conclusion because Obama has been subject to more false stories (68% of 87) than Bush was (36% of 47). So if your stipulation is correct, then Salon guy’s thesis applies even more strongly to Palin (100% of ten gazillion). I don’t have an opinion on the thesis itself – I just wanted to ask if the thesis extends to Palin. My suspicion is that Salon guy would not endorse his thesis as applied to Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/22 "2010-04-26T14:49:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How many Palin rumors are documented on Snopes, with what true/false percentage? At a very quick glance: ten rumors of which seven are false, one is true, one is undetermined, and one is a mixed bag of true and false (comparisons to Teddy Roosevelt). The numbers for Obama and Bush are as reported in the OP. It’s worth noting, however, that not all “rumors” are inherently negative or indeed directly on the subject. Obama’s list includes a (true) quote from Robert Kennedy that a black man could become President within forty years. Bush’s includes a number which reflect well on him. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/23 "2010-04-26T14:54:30Z")
Well Obama is the anti-Christ while Bush was merely a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/24 "2010-04-26T15:00:51Z")
> [@](#): > > After eight years in the White House (with [Snopes.com](http://Snopes.com) around all that time), George W. Bush has been the subject of 47 internet rumors. After less than two years in office, Barack Obama has been the subject of 87, or nearly twice as many. Sounds like one of those bullshit facts/stats someone just pulled out of his ass. In any case, at least you don’t seem to spreading your obnoxious lunacy to the rest of the globe as you did with Bush. I used to always have to read all kinds of stupid bullshit conspiracy theories about Bush. Fortunately I have so far been spared this with Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/25 "2010-04-26T15:03:26Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Well Obama is the anti-Christ while Bush was merely a moron. Is Obama also a Skull & Bones man? And a member of the Illuminati and Bilderberg Group? Has Obama been implicated in a major terror attack on USA? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/26 "2010-04-26T15:07:33Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Is Obama also a Skull & Bones man? And a member of the Illuminati and Bilderberg Group? Has Obama been implicated in a major terror attack on USA? [Yup](http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19633). [Yup](http://www.knowthelies.com/?q=node/785). [Yup](http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=57231). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/27 "2010-04-26T15:11:04Z")
I quickly skimmed over the supposed 47 rumors for Bush, and if this is supposed to be an exhaustive list then all I can say is the entire basis of the article from Salon posted in the OP is a joke. There is one (one!) listed rumor concerning 9/11, and it’s about him hugging a 9/11 victim. That alone pretty much blows the list out of the water, since there are more than 47 (hell, more than 87) internet rumors about Bush’s supposed actions and knowledge on this subject alone. Looking through the rest, I don’t see many of the more juicy internet rumors I remember getting. A quick search on ‘Katrina’, for instance, shows no listings for any rumors about this. All I can say is that [Snopes.com](http://Snopes.com) (which, btw, I use quite often) just didn’t get into the political silly rumors game during the Bush years (for whatever reason) while they seem to have have decided to post more regularly about ones concerning Obama now (again, for whatever reason…I’ll leave it to the reader to decide why both of these seem to be the case). -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/28 "2010-04-26T15:31:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How many Palin rumors are documented on Snopes, with what true/false percentage? I don’t know. Why don’t you tell us? It’s pretty easy to do a search on snopes like the guy in the linked article did. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/29 "2010-04-26T15:33:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know. Why don’t you tell us? It’s pretty easy to do a search on snopes like the guy in the linked article did. I did tell you: > [@Bricker](#): > > Well, the OP links to a Salon story with the thesis that we may reach some conclusion because Obama has been subject to more false stories (68% of 87) than Bush was (36% of 47). > > So if your stipulation is correct, then Salon guy’s thesis applies even more strongly to Palin (100% of ten gazillion). > > I don’t have an opinion on the thesis itself – I just wanted to ask if the thesis extends to Palin. My suspicion is that Salon guy would not endorse his thesis as applied to Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/30 "2010-04-26T15:59:09Z")
I kind of doubt that the count of rumors either in the linked Salon article or on Snopes makes any pretense to statistical significance. Plus, I had a glance at the list of Bush rumors. The “Bush resume” seems to be a compilation of a shit load of others, but only gets counted as one. It is the usual collection of lies, damned lies, and statistics. On example might be illustrative of some of the difficulties in judging these things - > [@](#): > > -I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history. Much of the rest of the resume is debunked [here.](http://web.archive.org/web/20031008143725/www.crossbearer.com/resume/The_Truth.pdf) (pdf) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/31 "2010-04-26T16:09:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I did tell you: If you mean paragraph 2, that was an obvious joke. If you mean paragraph 3, then no, you didn’t. I don’t see that speculating about what the salon guy might do in some hypothetical circumstance adds anything to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/32 "2010-04-26T16:17:15Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I quickly skimmed over the supposed 47 rumors for Bush, and if this is supposed to be an exhaustive list then all I can say is the entire basis of the article from Salon posted in the OP is a joke. There is one (one!) listed rumor concerning 9/11, and it’s about him hugging a 9/11 victim. That alone pretty much blows the list out of the water, since there are more than 47 (hell, more than 87) internet rumors about Bush’s supposed actions and knowledge on this subject alone. Looking through the rest, I don’t see many of the more juicy internet rumors I remember getting. A quick search on ‘Katrina’, for instance, shows no listings for any rumors about this. Both Katrina and 9/11 have their own sub-categories on the Snopes main page. And Katrina not only has its own category, politics/katrina has its own subcategory. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/33 "2010-04-26T16:21:24Z")
I don’t know if counting Snopes articles is a meaningful measure or not. I just know in my email inbox, I have seen many more emails about Obama than I ever did about Bush, by several times over. I would be interested if anyone can honestly report the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/34 "2010-04-26T16:27:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t know if counting Snopes articles is a meaningful measure or not. I just know in my email inbox, I have seen many more emails about Obama than I ever did about Bush, by several times over. I would be interested if anyone can honestly report the opposite. I’d agree with this. I don’t think the Salon article is what one would call a “rigorous analysis”. I also get a lot of craziness in my inbox about Obama, but I really only have one liberal friend who sends out crazy e-mails, as opposed to 4 or 5 on the other end of the political spectrum. There were all kinds of “OMG, Bush is issuing signing statements” (as if no other president had ever done so) and "Cheney is profiting off Haliburton’ (when he wasn’t), but it seems like I get at least one crazy Obama e-mail every week. Still, ones own personal experience isn’t remotely a “rigorous analysis”, either. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/35 "2010-04-26T16:28:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you mean paragraph 2, that was an obvious joke. If you mean paragraph 3, then no, you didn’t. I don’t see that speculating about what the salon guy might do in some hypothetical circumstance adds anything to the debate. Really? Salon Guy’s thesis is so specific to Obama and Bush that it cannot be generalized for Palin? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/36 "2010-04-26T16:32:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t know if counting Snopes articles is a meaningful measure or not. I just know in my email inbox, I have seen many more emails about Obama than I ever did about Bush, by several times over. I would be interested if anyone can honestly report the opposite. I’m not sure I get more anti-Obama emails then I did anti-Bush. But the difference is the anti-Bush emails I get are almost all trying to make fun of Bush (with varying degrees of success). I must’ve gotten the one where Bush’s face is compared to a chimp about six times over eight years. But the specific domain of unflattering rumors or conspiracy theories about the subject that end up being BS seem to be less bipartisan, by a four or five to one ratio, IMO. And as I said, the same disparity predates Obama. I remember the same thing with Gore and then Kerry. And its not just political candidates like Obama/Gore/Kerry, I get a lot that target something “hippies” or PETA or ACORN or whatever supposedly did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/37 "2010-04-26T16:32:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Really? Salon Guy’s thesis is so specific to Obama and Bush that it cannot be generalized for Palin? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but that does not seem to be the same things as: > [@](#): > > My suspicion is that Salon guy would not endorse his thesis as applied to Palin. Are you saying he would dispute the data if it did, or that he wouldn’t bother publishing it because it went against his preconceived ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/38 "2010-04-26T16:38:10Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > …nearly all my friends LOVE Obama and thinks he pretty much walks on water. > > -XT The incident involving Obama walking on water has actually been verified according to [Snopes](http://yeahright). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/39 "2010-04-26T16:41:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you saying he would dispute the data if it did, or that he wouldn’t bother publishing it because it went against his preconceived ideas? I’m saying that I suspect he would No True Scotsman it, by finding some way to distinguish it. That is, his thesis seems to be: even if the Bush haters were spreading irrational and false rumors about Bush, the Obama haters are worse, because they are spreading more rumors, with an even higher rate of falsity, about Obama. My reaction is: if he were confronted by evidence that Palin e-mails had a still higher number/percentage of false claims, he would not then endorse the proposition that Palin haters are worse still. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333/40 "2010-04-26T16:50:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m saying that I suspect he would No True Scotsman it, by finding some way to distinguish it. That is, his thesis seems to be: even if the Bush haters were spreading irrational and false rumors about Bush, the Obama haters are worse, because they are spreading more rumors, with an even higher rate of falsity, about Obama. > > My reaction is: if he were confronted by evidence that Palin e-mails had a still higher number/percentage of false claims, he would not then endorse the proposition that Palin haters are worse still. Are you actually famililar with the guys writings or even personally outside this one article? It seems bizarre to try and psychoanalyze him to propose what he’d do in some hypothetical situation based on eight paragraphs and a tag line. Plus, who really cares what “J.L. Bell” would do in made up situations? I actually happen to know for a fact, that if the Chinese invade Hawaii, Bell would be the first to volunteer for an elite US commando squad that would go behind enemy lines and destroy the Communist infrastructure, saving the State. J.S Bell is, hypothetically, Americas greatest War-hero, and I’m disgusted that you would hypothetically slander such a hypothetically great man! What are we talking about again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-a-lot-more-bs-email-rumors-against-obama-than-there-were-against-w-bush-and-if-so-why/537333.md?page=3)