# Are there academic subjects that can be studied successfully by relying mainly on rote memory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012 "2013-08-12T06:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/41 "2013-08-13T14:15:48Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I understand that a lot of Chinese students get in trouble for plagiarism because in China, it’s not just okay, it’s **correct** to just copy somebody’s words verbatim when writing a paper. Because even if you’re adding to it, you’re building upon their work – why bother rewording it? And why think you can do it better than the great thinking who came up with it? We had this happen too- both the plagiarizing sources, and the plagiarizing each other- there would be say 5 Chinese students in a class, and every one of them would turn in a paper that was basically the same as the other 4. Instead of working independently on their assignments, they’d work on them as a group and each turn in the group results as their own. There was a LOT of friction between the American/European students and the Chinese students about this- a lot of it stemmed from the administration and professors being willing to give them a pass for what amounted to plagiarism and cheating according to the university rules, and giving them a warning, instead of giving them all a bad grade on the assignment and a stern warning. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/42 "2013-08-13T14:29:27Z")
Bump and Jragon’s examples kind of skew the “building on their work” Chinese approach. That mentality stems from quoting ancient philosophies and sayings where a misquote is a major faux pas. Plagarism when it comes to modern academia doesn’t apply. I think what Bump is referencing is simply foreign students trying to push the envelope on how much slack they’re given for being foreign. They definitely know better. ---
**Author:** ![silvermist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@silvermist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silvermist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/43 "2013-08-13T16:44:53Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I think medicine is likely the best answer amongst the professional disciplines. It really does seem that you could likely get an MD and probably even pass boards simply by memorizing lots and lots of stuff. > > Wouldn’t be a good doctor, of course, but could get the degree I think. I agree, nursing too. I worked in a hospital and an assisted living facility and was amazed at how little thinking the nurses actually did. They don’t need to because they just follow doctor’s orders, however, a good nurse who thinks, can spot potential serious problems in time to notify a doctor and help someone avert disaster. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/44 "2013-08-13T17:28:13Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > …In teh very unlikely event that someone were able to get a university degree, or even pass a course, just on the basis of rote learning …that would be evidence that proper assessment methods were not being used, not that the student had actually successfully learned what they were supposed to. And that leads to the observation that there are really two questions to ask. One is whether or not there are subjects that you can major in or get a degree in where there really is an expectation and understanding that little original or independent thought is required and that the degree consists mostly of memorization and parroting out the expected answers or plugging numbers into the right formulas. The other is whether or not there are subjects where even though the real expectation is that the student demonstrates independent thought, it is rather easy in a practical sense to BS your way to a passing grade through memorization because the grading/assessment practices commonly do not sufficiently test for independent thought. There were several undergrad classes where I think I could have gotten a C just by memorizing the formulas and facts. Maybe I would get a low score on the projects but multiple choice and short answer questions were such a big percentage of your grade it didn’t really matter that you got a 62 on the term paper if all you wanted to do was pass. Grad classes, no way. If you didn’t know the facts, you wouldn’t do well, but then the facts were only a foundation - you had to do real research and/or real experimentation and report on what you found. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/45 "2013-08-13T17:43:56Z")
> [@Desolation\_Island](#): > > Surely law school? Law students do very little rote memorization. The point is to learn how to think like a lawyer, not to memorize the law, which after all is already written down. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/46 "2013-08-13T17:59:44Z")
In Med school, anatomy in general, and neuroanatomy in particular were nothing but memorization (okay, and I suppose recognition and then regurgitation of what you’ve memorized when given various clues). But, NO creative thought or deductive reasoning. (I got A’s;)) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/47 "2013-08-13T21:50:58Z")
> [@sundog66](#): > > Foreign languages come to mind, especially the “old school” style where the focus is on rote memorization of vocabulary and grammatical paradigms for the purpose of written translation rather than conversational fluency. (And even if you add in a focus on conversational fluency, no “deep thinking” or tough concepts figure in; it’s just a matter of practice.) Rote memorization might get someone through a beginning or intermediate level foreign language course, but actually completing a degree as a foreign language major would require upper level coursework covering foreign literature and culture. Rote memorization isn’t going to be very helpful there. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/48 "2013-08-14T00:54:11Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Bump and Jragon’s examples kind of skew the “building on their work” Chinese approach. That mentality stems from quoting ancient philosophies and sayings where a misquote is a major faux pas. Plagarism when it comes to modern academia doesn’t apply. I think what Bump is referencing is simply foreign students trying to push the envelope on how much slack they’re given for being foreign. They definitely know better. Good to know. Luckily I’ve never had to grade a student who tried to pull that on me, but I may have fallen for it. ETA: Though I’ve definitely seen no shortage of Chinese students who can literally quote chapters out of the class textbook verbatim. That I stand by. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/49 "2013-08-14T13:38:48Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Good to know. Luckily I’ve never had to grade a student who tried to pull that on me, but I may have fallen for it. > > ETA: Though I’ve definitely seen no shortage of Chinese students who can literally quote chapters out of the class textbook verbatim. That I stand by. I wasn’t trying to imply that they didn’t put effort in and cheated out of sloth; far from it. What they did was 2 things- one, they did collective work on non-collective projects, and two, rather than cite a source, they tended to pirate entire paragraphs for their research papers unquoted, with one cite at the bottom or something like that. It was like they sort of got the idea of citations, but didn’t get the idea of quotes, except I think from their mindset, that was a perfectly valid way to get a point across- put some respected authority’s words in your paper. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/50 "2013-08-15T08:26:02Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How about mathematics? Most of calculus and related areas is largely rote memorization, but the math that university professors work on is a completely different field. Seriously, high-school and freshman- or sophomore-undergraduate math might as well be a completely separate subject; it’s just taught in the math department because…well, who else is going to do it. (And there’s a bit of real analysis and ring theory involved sometimes, but whatever.) I’d rather see calculus (as opposed to real analysis) classes taught in the applied math, engineering, etc. departments, but that’s a discussion for another time. Anyway, in math, there are certainly big results, but hardly any ‘formulas’ at all; the subject is about proving interesting results, rather than just compiling a toolbox of formulas to stick numbers into. For example, [here](http://arxiv.org/pdf/1307.2401.pdf) is a random math paper off the arxiv. (It really is random; I was just looking for one that was reasonably short and in a subject I know a little but not a lot about.) It’s more computational than most, but it’s certainly not a matter of applying formulas. You _might_ be able to find something that’s largely memorization-based in certain areas of engineering, but I doubt you’ll find anything at all that fits in among academic disciplines. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/51 "2013-08-15T08:32:55Z")
It’s not even really true that most of calculus is largely rote memorization… that’s just the way it’s often presented to the great hordes of uncaring students required to “learn” it regardless of personal interest. As far as I’m concerned, while it’s correct to say math isn’t about calculations and formulas, it’s also not really about proofs and theorems, either (though all of these are an element of it). It’s about exploring and understanding abstract _ideas_, and, even informally, calculus has plenty of that (so long as “calculus” is understood to be something other than the pointlessly drilled skill of “Learn to simulate a symbolic integrator” which classes typically reduce it to). ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/52 "2013-08-15T08:36:13Z")
(continued from above) Actually, I think physics is similar. In introductory physics, you learn about inelastic collisions, conservation of momentum, and so forth. The goal is to compute what happens after a collision, find the trajectory of an object, etc. But that’s actually the uninteresting, utilitarian epilogue of physics rather than the nontrivial, interesting bits. Academic physics is about figuring out how particles could possibly interact to form the phenomena we see: What kind of particle could be responsible for certain decay processes, what properties would it have, how could we use those theoretical properties to set up an experiment to detect it, and what new physics would such a particle generate? The process of applying F = ma to a cannonball to find its trajectory, or using a trig substitution to compute an integral, or solving a system of linear equations— that’s just the aftermath of math and physics. The real, compelling, challenging stuff is the bit that’s being done. It’s great that those cool new things eventually filter down into formulas for more mundane applications, but memorizing those formulas is another business entirely. (And, of course, the people who memorize the formulas don’t do so to be academic mathematicians or physicists; they do so because they want to use them as a tool for their real goal of designing and constructing cool new buildings, or space vehicles, or useful robots, or whatever.) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/53 "2013-08-15T08:37:59Z")
I know! Spelling. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/54 "2013-08-15T08:46:08Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > It’s not even really true that most of calculus is largely rote memorization… that’s just the way it’s often presented to the great hordes of uncaring students required to “learn” it against their lack of interest. Fair enough: there’s real analysis involved; there are tricks like Feynman’s favorite one of parametrizing an integrand cleverly; etc. (When I was an grad student TAing a calculus-style class, the professor tried to retool the mandatory introductory calculus class as a more theoretical analysis class. It didn’t end well.) Most calculus classes, unfortunately, turn into an entire semester of memorizing various substitutions and endless drilling and repetition. It sucks, particularly since the whole class could be compressed into a couple of weeks rather than a full term. I think the problem is that, as you said, there are great hordes of uncaring students who have zero interest in it but are told they need it for the subjects they do care about. I’m not sure how dumbing it down to a tedious slog that teaches students nothing more than doing a pale imitation of Mathematica satisfies anyone, but I could spend a whole thread ranting about the way introductory math classes are taught. 🙂 [QUOTE=Indistinguishable] As far as I’m concerned, while it’s correct to say math isn’t about calculations and formulas, it’s also not really about proofs and theorems, either (though all of these are an element of it). It’s about exploring and understanding abstract ideas [/QUOTE] It is all about abstract ideas, but the proofs and theorems are a way of making sure that we’re actually exploring and understanding those ideas correctly. At that level of abstraction, there’s really no other way to talk about such things than with mathematical language. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/56 "2025-03-04T02:22:49Z")
I think a lot of undergrads have to memorize zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/57 "2025-03-04T02:54:10Z")
Pro tip about etymology: Every etymology that you ever hear based on an acronym is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/58 "2025-03-04T03:19:18Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > The most successful examination system known to man, the great Chinese Imperial Examination for the Civil Service relied to a large extent on rote memorization. And cheating was so rampant at one point capital punishment was used as a deterrent. Didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/59 "2025-03-04T03:32:11Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I think medicine is likely the best answer amongst the professional disciplines. It really does seem that you could likely get an MD and probably even pass boards simply by memorizing lots and lots of stuff. That would explain my experience with many medical doctors. No ability (or desire) to think out of the box. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/60 "2025-03-04T07:36:25Z")
Your method would return false negatives for laser, maser, radar, scuba, sonar… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012/61 "2025-03-05T01:34:16Z")
Those aren’t etymologies you hear, though. Nobody ever posts on a blog, “Hey, did you know the origin of ‘laser’? It stands for light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation!”. The ones you actually hear are, invariably, the bogus ones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-academic-subjects-that-can-be-studied-successfully-by-relying-mainly-on-rote-memory/666012.md?page=4)