# Are there any anti-antibacterial conspiracy theories? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596 "2013-11-23T04:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/1 "2013-11-23T04:30:51Z")
So we’ve got our garden-variety anti-vax nutjob conspiriacy theories. Are there any comparable CTs involving antibacterial drugs? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/2 "2013-11-23T05:22:05Z")
Not a CT, but there is a sizeable group of people who are of the opinion that our cultural obsession with cleanliness is making us less robust: if are bodies are never exposed to dirt and germs, they will not develop the tools to deal with those things if we ever are. Hence, ultra-cleanliness becomes a necessary addiction that we will not be able to escape. P&G, Johnson and Johnson, et al, did not specifically set out to establish this perilous situation, but it surely cannot be bad for their revenue stream. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/3 "2013-11-23T06:11:07Z")
I think the systematic use of an injection triggers more of a reaction in the CT brain than does pills taken for a yeast infection (yes I know they can be injections too - and that vaccines don’t have to be injected). There is something about “artificial ingredients” and additives in vaccines that sparks some sort of thought process in them.many times when you are taking antibiotics you are already sick. So with vaccines - you take 1000 healthy people - give them a vaccine - SOME of them will get sick - therefore it was the vaccine. With antibiotics - you take 1000 sick people - and well if some of them die - even crazy people probably can grasp that. But I’m sure somewhere people believe in a conspiracy of antibiotics - it isn’t just as organized as people with the vaccines. And plenty of people die (I’m sure) from not taking antibiotics cause they don’t want to effect their natural immune system. Antibiotics do kill some people indirectly - just not to the same extent that they save people. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/4 "2013-11-23T06:41:28Z")
A lot of people are concerned about the large amounts of antibiotics that are aggressively marketed to farmers to be pre-emptively fed to healthy farm animals, and how this is breeding more resistant bugs. There are similar concerns about the overprescription of antibiotics to humans, often for viral diseases, against which antibiotics have no effect. Much the same can also be said of the widespread use of antibacterial soap. But you, I think, are searching for irrational, baseless fears held by large numbers of people, and these examples, unfortunately, are neither. ---
**Author:** ![kaltkalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@kaltkalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaltkalt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/5 "2013-11-23T07:38:43Z")
I’ve heard using antibacterial soap and hand sanitizers and antibacterial kitchen cleaners (windex etc) will somehow create super-bugs and cause your immune system to weaken due to not experiencing all those bacteria. This sort of claim has always sounded ridiculous to me. I don’t believe these things kill all that much bacteria anyway, at least not for long. Even if my hands are sterile for a few minutes, the rest of my body sure isn’t. How effective can an alcohol hand sanitizer be? Ever watched a surgeon scrub up for 15 minutes to get his hands as sterile as possible before putting them in sterile gloves to go do a surgery? They wouldn’t waste 15 minutes of hard scrubbing if they could get their hands sterile with a squirt of gelled 70% isopropyl alcohol. And even with all that hand sanitizing, there’s no indication that surgeons are harming their immune systems. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/6 "2013-11-23T14:26:41Z")
Read this article: > **[Hygiene hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis)** > > In medicine, the hygiene hypothesis states that early childhood exposure to particular microorganisms (such as the gut flora and helminth parasites) protects against allergies by strengthening the immune system. In particular, a lack of such exposure is thought to lead to poor immune tolerance. The time period for exposure begins before birth and ends at school age. > While early versions of the hypothesis referred to microorganism exposure in general, later versions apply to a specific set of m... ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/7 "2013-11-23T15:09:13Z")
To clarify, the “Hygeine Hypothesis” posits that decreased microbial exposure _causes_ increased allergies and autoimmune disease. (I’m sure **Wendell** didn’t mean to put the “Hygeine Hypothesis” alongside the crazy anti-vax conspiracy theories!) There are numerous epidemiological studies that demonstrate a strong _correlation_ between high standards of cleanliness and high levels of allergies and related autoimmune disease. (A quick [Pubmed search](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed) pulls up hundreds of papers.) No serious scientists doubt these correlation. The correlations considered in the “hygeine hypothesis” are particularly strong, robust, and striking, and there are some bits and pieces of animal experiments that provide some support for the hypothesis. To provide one example: rates of allergies are highest in developed countries. First generation immigrants from countries with low allergy rates will acquire allergies at a higher rate after moving. Clearly, there is some sort of environmental factor behind differences in allergy rates. Of course, correlation does not prove causation, and in epidemiology you can’t run controlled randomized studies on large human populations. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/8 "2013-11-23T15:33:41Z")
I don’t doubt that there are anti-antibacterials ‘conspirators’ out there. And, [this woman, who let her son die a slow and no doubt painful death from a simple strept infection](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/mother-to-face-criminal-charges-in-son-s-strep-death-1.2436945) might be their president. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/9 "2013-11-23T15:56:32Z")
In what way does this differ from Christian Science, except that is an organized religion? My wife once knew a one-armed girl who lost her arm to an infection because her family were Christian Scientists. I would have asked her how the arm actually came off since I would have assumed that such an infection would simply go through the body and kill you. Did they pray the arm off? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/10 "2013-11-23T16:12:48Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > In what way does this differ from Christian Science, except that is an organized religion? In my opinion, not much. I will state without a cite that although competent adults can do as they please with respect to their health and medical treatments, that freedom does not extend to what they do, or don’t do, for their kids (in Canada, at least). There are ample precedents (for example involving Christian Scientists and Jehovah’s Witnesses) establishing that parents cannot deny their children effective medical interventions notwithstanding their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/11 "2013-11-23T20:54:00Z")
Given that the human [microbiome](http://www.genome.gov/27549115) is numerically greater than the host by a factor of ten, we really do need to revise our attitude toward our prokaryotes. There are trillions of bugs in the system without which it would simply not function at all. We need to stop associating bacteria with ick. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/12 "2013-11-25T05:54:07Z")
Thanks all. Sounds like there’s nothing directly comparable to anti-vax CTs. My guess is that antibacterials fight something that one (presumably) has, like an infection. Vaccines are preventative and apparently more suspect. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/13 "2013-11-25T06:12:11Z")
I think the point of the anti-vax nuts is that they resent the government coercing you to inject yourself (or your children too) with something that you don’t know or believe to be harmless. The fact that one person can harmlessly skip the treatment as long as sufficient others don’t, simply adds to their belief in the futility of the vaccines. I suppose, stretching it, the antibacterial equivalent would be the big fight in the 50’s and 60’s about fluoridating the water. The government attempting to poison your precious bodily fluids with foreign poisonous substances was seen as the classic communist plot. As the General tells Sellers in _Doctor Strangelove_, > [@](#): > > General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk… ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children’s ice cream. > > Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: [very nervous] Lord, Jack. > > General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began? > > Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I… no, no. I don’t, Jack. > > General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It’s incredibly obvious, isn’t it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That’s the way your hard-core Commie works. > > Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen… tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first… become… well, develop this theory? > > General Jack D. Ripper: [somewhat embarassed] Well, I, uh… I… I… first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love. > > Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm. > > General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue… a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I… I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. > > Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm. > > General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh… women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh… I do not avoid women, Mandrake. > > Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No. > > General Jack D. Ripper: But I… I do deny them my essence. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-anti-antibacterial-conspiracy-theories/674596/14 "2013-11-25T07:10:51Z")
I think there is some level of anti-antibiotic woo out there–separate from legitimate concerns about things like overuse and misuse of antibiotics breeding resistant pathogens–even if it’s not at the level as the antivax stuff. In [this recent thread about woo-based cures for morning sickness](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=708090), I noticed a claim that “colloidal silver” is apparently more “natural” than antibiotics. Sure enough, a web search on “colloidal silver” turned up [this article on the stuff](https://web.archive.org/web/20131107132837/http://www.naturalnews.com/041408_colloidal_silver_antibiotics_alternative_medicine.html)\* touting it as an all-around anti-microbial “miracle”, complete with a link to [another article on the same site](https://web.archive.org/web/20130917230834/http://www.naturalnews.com/034384_antibiotics_neurological_effects_toxicity.html)\* exposing the alleged “hidden epidemic” of Bad Things associated with antibiotics. \*Both pages are active; I’m giving the Internet Archive links out a disinclination to give any more incoming page hits than I already have to people who use terms like “Medical Mafia”.