# Are there any cases similar to Philando Castile where the deceased was white? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791 "2017-06-24T21:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/1 "2017-06-24T21:32:33Z")
Are there any cases where the police shot a white motorist who was armed and licensed to carry a concealed handgun? I was trying to keep this as GQ as possible. Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/2 "2017-06-24T23:31:34Z")
One that comes to mind > **[Cops gun down man for legally carrying firearm](https://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/)** > > Erik Scott was a West Point graduate who went on to serve honorably in the Army, get his MBA from Duke and establish a lucrative career in real estate and as a sales rep for a medical device company. He was 38 years old when he was gunned down in... ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/3 "2017-06-25T17:56:12Z")
Dylan Noble was not armed but acted as if he were. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/4 "2017-06-25T18:59:27Z")
How about unarmed [WHITE man](http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/02/ohio-cop-who-fatally-shot-unarmed-motorc) with his back turned? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/5 "2017-06-26T15:42:59Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > How about unarmed [WHITE man](http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/02/ohio-cop-who-fatally-shot-unarmed-motorc) with his back turned? Here is [one](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/unarmed-man-killed-arizona-cried-begged-life-article-1.2582759) where a white man was shot while unarmed, lying on his stomach, with his hands behind his back. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/6 "2017-06-27T15:04:44Z")
I guess another question would be - are there 8 times as many such cases as would be expected by demographics? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/7 "2017-06-27T19:46:49Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > One that comes to mind > > [Cops gun down man for legally carrying firearm | WND | by Jeff Knox](http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/) That one is a bit less straightforward than it appears. The Scott family sued the Metro police but later dropped the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/8 "2017-06-27T20:15:48Z")
[This](http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/07/21/you-fu-with-me-cop-threatens-concealed-carry-gun-owner-during-traffic-stop/) guy wasn’t shot, but the police officer involved apparently felt that he should have been: > [@](#): > > “I could blast you in the mouth right now!” the officer says in the video after finding out about the man’s gun. “I’m so close to caving in your Godda **ed head,” he adds. “You fu** with me! You’re just a stupid human being!” > > He continues: “Fu **ing talking to me with a Godd** \*ed gun! You want me to pull mine and stick it to your head? … I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40 and put ten bullets in your ass and let you drop.” > > “And I wouldn’t have lost any sleep!” he screams. ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/9 "2017-06-27T21:12:34Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I guess another question would be - are there 8 times as many such cases as would be expected by demographics? You’d need to correct for the encounter rate: if green people get stopped by the police twice as often as purple people, they have twice as many opportunities to get shot while reaching for their driver’s license. And that difference in encounter rates could be linked to racism or it could be that greens and purples actually behave differently on the road. (Or maybe the greens simply drive more, on average.) [Here](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/) is a rather thorough overview of the scientific literature of the topic of racial differences in police encounters in the US. [QUOTE=that article] _Summary_: There is good data that police stop blacks more often, both on the road and in neighborhoods. Studies conflict over whether the extra stops are justifiable; likely this varies by jurisdiction. Extra neighborhood stops are most likely neighborhood-related effects rather than race-related per se, but the neighborhood effects do disproportionately target black people. [/QUOTE] So if we assume that police officers are 100% non-racist in deciding whether to shoot someone for mentioning their CCW permit, you would still expects blacks to be shot more often than whites, per capita, because they have more police encounters in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/10 "2017-06-27T23:49:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That one is a bit less straightforward than it appears. The Scott family sued the Metro police but later dropped the lawsuit. Dropping a law suit doesn’t change the facts. Maybe they dropped the lawsuit because of (or fear of ) more bullets flying ? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/11 "2017-06-28T00:53:16Z")
Police kill people of all races for a perceived lack of compliance. It’s all a bullshit statist game, honestly. If you’re simply walking down the street, no crimes committed, and the police stop you and demand ID, you should have the right to tell them to sod off, and they should do so and you should be able to keep walking. But the cops perceive this as “having something to hide” and if you persist, your chances of being killed go way, way up. This is the fascist bullshit Americans live in. And make no mistake, they are more interested in your compliance than any real violations of law, which they so often do not know. Safe to say that your day in court also will not go very well, as “circling the wagons” is an extremely common tactic for law enforcement and district attorneys/judges. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/12 "2017-06-28T01:24:41Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > That one is a bit less straightforward than it appears. The Scott family sued the Metro police but later dropped the lawsuit. > > Dropping a law suit doesn’t change the facts. Maybe they dropped the lawsuit because of (or fear of ) more bullets flying ? [This article](https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/costco-shooting-victims-family-drops-lawsuit-against-las-vegas-police/) from a Las Vegas newspaper goes into some reasons why the family dropped the suit. No surveillance video was available and without that evidence, the “qualified immunity” provided to the police would mean that they would probably lose the case. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/13 "2017-06-28T01:32:56Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Police kill people of all races for a perceived lack of compliance. It’s all a bullshit statist game, honestly. If you’re simply walking down the street, no crimes committed, and the police stop you and demand ID, you should have the right to tell them to sod off, and they should do so and you should be able to keep walking. But the cops perceive this as “having something to hide” and if you persist, your chances of being killed go way, way up. This is the fascist bullshit Americans live in. And make no mistake, they are more interested in your compliance than any real violations of law, which they so often do not know. > > Safe to say that your day in court also will not go very well, as “circling the wagons” is an extremely common tactic for law enforcement and district attorneys/judges. Telling LEO’s to “sod off” does not sound to me like a smart tactic, regardless of the color or your skin. It seems to me that common courtesy would be to comply with the LEO’s request. This is not due to a fascist state, buy the responsibility of law abiding citizens to help law enforcement perform their job since better enforcement of the laws benefits all of society. Even unjust laws; there is no better way to get unjust laws changed but through the courts. Now, if you want to live in a society where courtesy to others, even if they may be employed by law enforcement, is not only not expected, but that the converse, discourtesy, should be expected, well, that doesn’t sound like the kind of society I would want to live in. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cases-similar-to-philando-castile-where-the-deceased-was-white/789791/14 "2017-06-28T02:47:07Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Telling LEO’s to “sod off” does not sound to me like a smart tactic, regardless of the color or your skin. It seems to me that common courtesy would be to comply with the LEO’s request. This is not due to a fascist state, buy the responsibility of law abiding citizens to help law enforcement perform their job since better enforcement of the laws benefits all of society. Even unjust laws; there is no better way to get unjust laws changed but through the courts. > > Now, if you want to live in a society where courtesy to others, even if they may be employed by law enforcement, is not only not expected, but that the converse, discourtesy, should be expected, well, that doesn’t sound like the kind of society I would want to live in. IIRC (IANAL) the specific case law says the police can stop you if they have reasonable suspicion, and can demand your name (but not physical ID) if they are investigating a complaint and you fit the description. Once they stop you, they can do a “Terry stop” (pat you down for weapons) if they have suspicions that you may be packing. What constitutes reasonable is up to those same courts that habitually acquit officers. Plus, telling the police to “sod off” and walking away would probably satisfy some jurors as “he was behaving erratically and unusually - maybe high on PCP”. As for the demographics of stopping people, unless DWB is a heavily enforced rule, total stops for whites are still a helluva lot more than blacks. (I sincerely hope that is the case).