# Are there any Centrists that may be able to unite us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 29, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095 "2018-05-29T22:46:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/21 "2018-05-30T14:24:31Z")
I’ll add that the people I know who are centrists are turned off not by the positions of the right or left wing, but by their perception of the people advocating those positions. A rabid, foaming at the moth liberal or conservative politician will turn off a centrist. Those same centrists would be happy to vote for someone who held those same positions as long as the politician in question wasn’t a foaling at the mouth angry type politician. To many centrists Clinton gave off an angry vibe, such as with her comment about the deplorables. I think this is why Obama succeeded while Clinton didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/22 "2018-05-30T14:25:20Z")
Oh but Bernie would have beaten Hillary, if the contest hadn’t been fixed. At least that’s the meme you hear these days from Republicans. And it doesn’t matter what Hillary’s positions _actually_ were, what matters is what people _believed_ they were because, of course, you couldn’t believe _her_. That’s the thing, you see. I think that neither the message nor the messenger matter until you can actually get people to _listen_ and not allow yourself to be defined by what the other guy says about you. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/23 "2018-05-30T14:47:44Z")
I think we need to come up with a list of centrists and examine whether or not they could have broad appeal. I consider Mike Bloomberg to be a moderate, centrist technocrat. People scream about his trivial “nanny state” propositions like the soda ban, but that’s just bullshit noise. There are plenty of things I don’t like about Bloomberg, but he is a capable and proven administrator and I would choose him over most democrats and all republicans. A centrist can’t just be someone who takes middle-of-the-road positions on every issue. Mike Rowe tries to do that and he comes off as a wishy-washy dingbat. You have to take a stand on some things. Or maybe you don’t. This is America and if you have enough charisma, you don’t have to say anything meaningful at all. \*Gee, I’d like to buy that guy a beer. \* Would a modern centrist be a conservative democrat? A liberal republican? Are there any liberal republicans these days? Lincoln Chafee and Susan Collins? Is Jim Webb a centrist? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/24 "2018-05-30T14:49:42Z")
Yes, there is. Joe Biden. Surfing the Great Blue Wave in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/25 "2018-05-30T15:06:42Z")
What do you mean? Is there going to be a centrist republican that democrats would vote for, and a centrist democrat that republicans would vote for? No. I don’t think people that identify with either party are going to flock over to the other side. Romney was about as centrist you’re going to get on the Republican side, and Hillary is pretty centrist too, in fact I think most of her leftism was pandering. They both lost. Up until Trump, Bush was the worst President EVAR, and now because of Trump, he gets look at relatively fondly by a lot of democrats. Bush, imo, was a centrist that made some dumb decisions. You never appreciate what you have until you get worse. I think Trump is really, not that far to the right. He’s an asshole, but remember this guy was a democrat for many years. Pence is far right of Trump imo. Could a centrist pull enough independents to one side or the other overwhelmingly to the point of a win? Maybe. It hasn’t happened yet, but maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/26 "2018-05-30T16:41:09Z")
Of course a [Centrist can get elected president](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama). Hillary lost. Narrowly. If she had won, Fox News would be–how does the OP put it–foaming at the mouth about her. But she would have been a centrist, because that’s who she is. So imagine a Hillary Clinton who got juuuuust a few move votes in Pennsylvania, and there you go. People are acting as if Hillary was unelectable. If she was unelectable, she would have lost decisively. Instead she lost narrowly. Was McCain unelectable, just because he lost to Obama? Was Romney unelectable, just because he lost to Obama? They both lost by greater margins than Hillary lost to Trump, so if Hillary was a disaster then every losing candidate is a disaster. What exactly is centrism? Is it about tone? Hey, I’m in favor of the death penalty for homosexuality, you’re in favor of concentration camps for Christians, but we eventually reach a compromise and then go out for a beer afterwards? Is it about simply supporting the status quo? Is it supporting positions that most people support, which isn’t the same as supporting the status quo? Is it about supporting “reasonable” positions? Is it just not being a member of either major party? If we can’t agree that Barack Obama was a centrist, then the word has no meaning, and further discussion is pointless. Can we elect another guy like Barack Obama? Sure we can. Will this person unite us? Hell no. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/27 "2018-05-30T17:33:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I disagree. Democrats don’t actually do anything on guns. And the right is still going to run ‘scary democrats want you to be defenseless in a dangerous world’ ad no matter what the official democratic policy is. Well… “don’t do anything on guns”, but unless you go back to the Clinton administration, you don’t see Democrats in much position to do anything. And the hated AWB came from that era, which is like yesterday to gun enthusiasts. And the rhetoric coming from Democrats after every school shooting is “we should do something, anything.” I could concede that even if Democrats never did another thing on guns, they’ve already provided tons of reasons for gun people to get lathered up for at least another generation. But I definitely don’t see it as a dead issue. I’m just saying what I see from people I know… they are all sorts of problematic, but it seems like they can relax their socialism paranoia, the mild racism, the political correctness phobia, immigrant worries, as long as they possess that symbolic talisman that makes them feel like they can make that imaginary last stand against tyranny. Again, just my read from people I know. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/28 "2018-05-30T18:00:14Z")
Even if Democrats as a party soft-pedal their support of common-sense gun-control, there are plenty of folks out there who aren’t going away on this issue and who will be tied to the Democrats, whether they (the Dems) like it or not. Again the problem is: “I say X, you hear Y.” ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/29 "2018-05-30T18:16:05Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > What do you mean? Is there going to be a centrist republican that democrats would vote for, and a centrist democrat that republicans would vote for? > > No. > > I don’t think people that identify with either party are going to flock over to the other side. Romney was about as centrist you’re going to get on the Republican side, and Hillary is pretty centrist too, in fact I think most of her leftism was pandering. They both lost. > > **Up until Trump, Bush was the worst President EVAR** , and now because of Trump, he gets look at relatively fondly by a lot of democrats. Bush, imo, was a centrist that made some dumb decisions. You never appreciate what you have until you get worse. > > I think Trump is really, not that far to the right. He’s an asshole, but remember this guy was a democrat for many years. Pence is far right of Trump imo. > > Could a centrist pull enough independents to one side or the other overwhelmingly to the point of a win? Maybe. It hasn’t happened yet, but maybe. You bring up a good example of what I was trying to point out about what turns centrists off regarding Democrats. Bush Jr was a below average president, but not anywhere close to being the worst EVAR. To the extent that those on the left portrayed him as such, I think that did drive a way a certain type of centrist. IMHO even Trump isn’t the wort ever (Buchanan and Andrew Johnson have him beat, possibly one or two others as well) and there are voters, many with liberal leaning beliefs, who I know personally who are turned off by those types of claims and are less likely to vote as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/30 "2018-05-30T18:22:59Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Well… “don’t do anything on guns”, but unless you go back to the Clinton administration, you don’t see Democrats in much position to do anything. And the hated AWB came from that era, which is like yesterday to gun enthusiasts. And the rhetoric coming from Democrats after every school shooting is “we should do something, anything.” > > I could concede that even if Democrats never did another thing on guns, they’ve already provided tons of reasons for gun people to get lathered up for at least another generation. But I definitely don’t see it as a dead issue. > > I’m just saying what I see from people I know… they are all sorts of problematic, but it seems like they can relax their socialism paranoia, the mild racism, the political correctness phobia, immigrant worries, as long as they possess that symbolic talisman that makes them feel like they can make that imaginary last stand against tyranny. Again, just my read from people I know. I think you are missing the useful mechanics of wedge issues. A soon as one wedge issue gets resolved, another one is ginned up to keep the natives restless. That is the ultimate goal, keeping the populace worked up. So, if in some magical future, both Democrats and Republicans vote for a bill where every man woman and child in America has a shiny new firearm delivered right to their front door every single day for free, then the folks in charge (however you choose to define this) will move on to getting their chosen supporters all apoplectic about, oh, I don’t know, the use of the Oxford comma. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/31 "2018-05-30T18:33:20Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I think you are missing the useful mechanics of wedge issues. A soon as one wedge issue gets resolved, another one is ginned up to keep the natives restless. That is the ultimate goal, keeping the populace worked up. Well, you’re right and I do appreciate that dynamic. It certainly exists. I am just suggesting that people sincerely care about some issues more than others, so some issues are more effective wedges than others. In my judgment, guns are “peak wedge” if you want to put it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/32 "2018-05-30T18:41:16Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Even if Democrats as a party soft-pedal their support of common-sense gun-control, there are plenty of folks out there who aren’t going away on this issue and who will be tied to the Democrats, whether they (the Dems) like it or not. > > Again the problem is: “I say X, you hear Y.” > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Bush Jr was a below average president, but not anywhere close to being the worst EVAR. To the extent that those on the left portrayed him as such, I think that did drive a way a certain type of centrist. “I say X, you hear Y” is true even for the overblown Bush rhetoric, which I, as a liberal, recognized at the time (but of course was not listened to if I made my feelings known at all since conservatives and “bothsidesdoit” so-called centrists only like to nutpick.) Toward the turn of the 2010s and a bit before, there were centrists on this message board even who were so desperate to prove how openminded they were that they used provably false stories of how bad lefties were disparaging Bush (specifically, claiming they used epithets that were very rarely used, if ever.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/33 "2018-05-30T19:31:50Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > What exactly is centrism? I would suggest: 1. Carrot + stick is better than carrot only and stick only. 2. There are generally more than two solutions to problems. 3. The Nirvana fallacy is a fallacy. 4. Data trumps personal beliefs. But if people are only given the option, “left, right, or center”, I’d expect that a lot of the people who mark themselves down as “center” are apolitical, anarchists, libertarian, etc. A lot of the support for demagogues may well come from the apolitical people who think that the whole thing is irrelevant to daily life and that you may as well just give someone all power so that the whole game goes away. I don’t know. You would need follow up studies to determine. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/34 "2018-05-30T20:08:51Z")
So what I am hearing so far is…no, not so much? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/35 "2018-05-30T20:34:22Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > So what I am hearing so far is…no, not so much? They do exist, but with the increasingly polarized electorate the politicians who consider themselves centrists are becoming less likely to run for office. When it comes to the politicians the sincere ones look at the current political climate and decide not to run. We’re then left with those that are running because of their personal ambitions and dedication to the movement (left or right) rather than a desire to serve the whole population. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/36 "2018-05-30T21:08:59Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > So what I am hearing so far is…no, not so much? Obviously some would disagree, but I think the Democrats are the centrists. Liberals like Bernie Sanders may hold some offices but they don’t represent the party as a whole in the way that conservatives now own the Republican party. When Hillary Clinton ran in 2016 she was able to say she wasn’t as liberal as Sanders. Nobody in the GOP would ever say they weren’t as conservative as a rival, even if it was true; it would be political suicide in that party. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/37 "2018-05-30T21:40:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Obviously some would disagree, but I think the Democrats are the centrists. Liberals like Bernie Sanders may hold some offices but they don’t represent the party as a whole in the way that conservatives now own the Republican party. When Hillary Clinton ran in 2016 she was able to say she wasn’t as liberal as Sanders. Nobody in the GOP would ever say they weren’t as conservative as a rival, even if it was true; it would be political suicide in that party. Excellent point. Democrats define themselves (in part) by their inclusiveness and attempts to govern for the benefit of all, whereas Republicans are less shy about aiming their efforts at providing advantages for ‘job creators,’ wealthy people who don’t want to pay inheritance tax, Real (white) Americans, and other “superior” types. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/38 "2018-05-30T21:48:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > We have to admire John Kasich, one of the very very few Republicans. to oppose the election of Donald J. Trump. _ **But he did not endorse Hillary.** _ And to characterize him as a “centrist” means the right-wing has already won. > > John Kasich > [ul][li] worked for Fox News, hosting Heartland with John Kasich from 2001 to 2007 and was a fill-in host for The O’Reilly Factor;[/li][li] opposes women’s right to abortion, wants to destroy Planned Parenthood, etc.;[/li][li] required women seeking abortions to undergo ultrasounds;[/li][li] proposes selling Ohio’s state prisons to the for-profit prison industry;[/li][li] has cut Ohio’s income and estate taxes, while raising regressive taxes;[/li][li] opposes the right of public employees to collective bargaining;[/li][li] has reduced funding for Ohio’s public schools;[/li][li] supports teaching alternatives to evolution—such as intelligent design;[/li][li] was an enthusiastic supporter of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (though he denies this now), and wanted to send ground troops to fight Da’esh;[/li][li] signed voter-suppression laws;[/li][li] supports repealing the Fourteenth Amendment, specifically its _jus soli_ provision (" All persons born …in the United States … are citizens of the United States").[/li][/ul] > Taken together, Kasich’s views are not quite as right-wing as the above list implies; and his thinking has evolved on several issues. Nevertheless, any suggestion that centrists or liberals should rally around him just shows how far down the right-wing rabbit hole we’ve descended. As a resident of Ohio, I cannot stand Governor Kasich. Yes, I give him credit for opposing Trump and speaking out forcefully against the direction the Republican Party has taken. But he is still someone whose positions I cannot agree with and he is anything but “moderate”. He only appears moderate compared to the current extremism of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/39 "2018-05-30T21:49:05Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > People are acting as if Hillary was unelectable. If she was unelectable, she would have lost decisively. Instead she lost narrowly. Was McCain unelectable, just because he lost to Obama? Was Romney unelectable, just because he lost to Obama? They both lost by greater margins than Hillary lost to Trump, so if Hillary was a disaster then every losing candidate is a disaster. There’s a huge difference. McCain and Romney lost to Obama. Hillary lost to\* Donald Trump. \* This is like saying, “Michigan lost to Appalachian State by 2 points, but so what? Missouri once lost to Alabama.” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095/40 "2018-05-30T22:23:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There’s a huge difference. McCain and Romney lost to Obama. Hillary lost to\* Donald Trump. \* I don’t know how many were serious, but a lots folk’s stated reason for voting Trump was ‘he’s not Hillary’. Which makes sense. My _only_ reason for voting for Hillary was ‘she’s not Trump’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-centrists-that-may-be-able-to-unite-us/815095.md?page=3)