Are there any competing theories to Evolution?

There is a distinction to be drawn between, on the one hand, the occurrence of evolution (i.e., the fact that species change their forms over time), and its general pattern, and, on the other hand, the mechanism by which this occurs, such as natural selection. There is not much room for debate about the occurrence or its pattern, but a tiny bit of wiggle room over the mechanism.

Lamark actually had a different view of both of these issues from those held by Darwin and modern biologists. As most people are aware, Darwin (and biologists today) understood evolution as a branching process, a process of differentiation of species, with one species sometimes giving rise to another distinct one, while the original species continued to live on. Also species might sometimes become extinct. It is usually assumed that there was one single original type of living thing on Earth (I think Darwin himself allowed for the possibility that there might have been a few separate origins, but certainly not nearly as many as there are species today) and everything else branched off from there. This gives rise to the familiar sorts of branching tree diagrams of evolution.

Lamark, however, did not believe in branching evolution. As he saw it, each species had a separate origin, but it would also evolve over time so that the modern form of some type of creature might be very different from its earlier ancestors. Thus a Lamarkian diagram of evolution would show many parallel evolving lineages, rather than a branching tree. Also, Lamark thought if a modern day species had a relatively simple structure, that meant that its lineage had originated relatively recently and it had not yet had enough time to evolve into a more complex form. Everything started off simple (unicellular I guess) and got more complex over time. As I understand it, a large part of the motivation for the whole system was than nothing should actually ever go extinct - fossils of things that are no longer found alive were actually just earlier forms of things that had now evolved into something else - because if a species actually ever went extinct that would mean that God had screwed up, which was religiously unacceptable. (The worries that devout Christians had about biology in Lamark’s, or, come to that, Darwin’s, time had little in common with the Bible idiolatry that developed in 20th century America. Modern creationism is rooted in ignorance about Christianity quite as much as ignorance about biology.)

As for mechanisms of evolution, so far as I am aware the only serious candidates are Darwinian natural selection (as amended by modern genetic knowledge), Lamarkian inheritance of acquired characteristics (whereby improvements an individual organism manages to make in itself over its lifetime get passed on to its offspring, who then make further improvements, and so on), and random genetic drift.

I do not think Lamarkian parallel lines of evolution would find any supporters anywhere these days. On the one hand it has no appeal for the Biblical literalists (even if you stipulate that the original ancestor in each parallel lineage was created directly by God), but, more importantly, it just does not have the explanatory power of the Darwinian branching model, which explains all sorts of facts, such as the pattern of geographical distribution of species and the hierarchical pattern of similarities and differences between species, that the Lamarkian theory has no more to say about than crude creationism does. (Some of theses facts, such as the geographical distribution of species in isolated environments like remote islands, also make no sense from a creationist perspective. If God did it that way he must be nuts! These were the facts that persuaded Darwin himself that evolution was real, but not Lamarkian, well before he came up with natural selection as a mechanism to drive it.)

It is a bit different when we come to the mechanisms, though. Random genetic drift undoubtedly happens, and has real effects, although I believe the scientific consensus is that they are mostly swamped by the much larger effects of natural selection.

Darwin himself was quite prepared to believe that the Lamarkian mechanism might play a significant role in evolution (increasing so in later editions of The Origin of Species), and there is certainly nothing inherently unscientific about the idea. The main problem with it is that given our modern understanding of how inheritance works (DNA and all that), there seems to be no mechanism whereby acquired characteristics could be passed on to offspring, as Lamark’s theory requires. It is not inconceivable, however, that such a mechanism might be discovered. If it was, it might turn out that the Lamarkian mechanism might play a minor role in driving (Darwin style, branching tree) evolution. It is gong to be at most a very minor role, though, because it is clear that natural selection, which certainly occurs, together with a little bit of genetic drift, is plenty enough to account for most (perhaps all) of the facts.

Darwin offered a hypothesis for the transmission of traits to descendants which happened to be dead wrong. (Not that he claimed much support for it.) The power of evolution is shown by the way that the mechanism, when discovered, supported evolution very well.

A bit more on Lamarck/Lysenko

This bit is interesting:

There must be some genetic explanation for ‘instincts’, and it is not hard to see how those would result in a physical change.

Also, we have long been mutating plants and animals through selective breeding and cross breeding - and we are not exactly ‘natural selection’ in the strict Darwinian sense. Personally I doubt that Darwin’s work was much of a revelation to farmers and nurserymen.

Right, some fish got eyes by random mutation, some fish didn’t; in light conditions the fish with eyes were better able to survive and propagate. That’s natural selection. What I thought Darwin was saying (admittedly only from having read the abstract to the study linked to earlier in the thread) is that since having useless eyes is not an active disadvantage to the fish in any way, if the cavefish as a species happened to lose its eyes while living in permanent darkness it would be a coincidence; it couldn’t be a result of natural selection because whether the fish had eyes or not was completely irrelevant to their survival in those conditions. That’s what I meant. But obviously that’s probably not true because there seems to be a high ‘metabolic cost’ involved in maintaining structures like retinas, with no respective benefit.

I find that very confusing. If the eyes do not provide any benefit or any costs in terms of survival, ‘disuse’ is not a reason the species of fish would be likely to lose its eyes. Sure it might lose them by random chance - or it might retain them by random chance - but I don’t see how ‘disuse’ can make the probability of losing the eyes greater than random when natural selection is not involved. Under Darwin’s theory, how can anything but natural selection make the probability of a trait being gained or lost different to random?

The “advantage”, such as can be said for it, to the loss of eyes in cave fish, is that it takes body resources to build and maintain eyes, it requires genetic encoding to ‘store the blueprint for eyes’ (and yeah, this is coding for proteins, etc., but as a broad generality, gene N encodes for building eyes, in much the same sense that boot camp drill instructors train armies – they train the recruits that will after training be the building blocks of armies, just as genes code for proteins and such that will bvecom the building blocks for eyes, muscles, etc.).

Anyway, my point is that if the gene for eyes becomes inactive, and even more if it is “lost”, body resources for an organ that is useless in the particular econiche the fish is evolved to fill, will become available for doing other things – leading to a slight but real tendency to favor the loss of eyes. Suppose for a hypothesis that there is an extensive network of cave streams and pools that is stable over tens of millions of years, and there will be a selection for eyeless fish to populate it.

ID is not a scientific theory. Not because there is no evidence, but because it makes no testable prediction. You might say it would predict that organisms are perfectly fitted for their environments, but in that case it is refuted by the evidence. Why did I have a diseased appendix that had to be removed? Why did I have useless wisdom teeth? Why does the birth canal go through a hole in the largest bone in the body? I could go on. Read Neil Shubin’s “Your inner fish” for many more examples.

I have heard of a theory of ‘islands of stability’ of life that would prevent evolution as some jumps are just too far. I don’t know how recognized it is scientifically. It is more of a creationist view (creation according to their kind) then a ID view (guided evolution). But it is interesting as it would negate evolution totally.

Utter nonsense. Of course it wouldn’t. It’s an interesting theory within the framework of evolution as a whole. Read “At Home In The Universe” by Stuart Kauffman for a well-written scientific examination of the concept.

Absolutely, and that’s natural selection. That’s what actually happened with the cavefish.

But what I’m asking is this: Darwin seems to have specifically believed natural selection was not involved in causing the cavefish to lose its eyes. He thought there was no disadvantage at all involved in maintaining the eyes. Instead he thought there was a probability greater than random that cavefish would lose their eyes ‘because of disuse’, which he implies is something different from natural selection.

How can he have believed something other than natural selection could make the probability of a species losing a trait greater than random? Or have I misinterpreted him?

Actually, that’s not what happened with the cavefish. All the genes to make eyes remain in place; the eyes, in fact, are still made. They are just overwhelmed by the development of surrounding tissues. The current theory that makes the most sense is that the current state of cavefish eyes is the result of pleiotropic effects - other traits are selected for; it just so happens that the development of those traits is also linked to eye development in such a way that eye development is derailed somewhat as the other traits’ development is enhanced.

Contrary to popular belief, Darwin wasn’t “all natural selection, all the time”. He allowed for alternative mechanisms - including inheritance of acquired characters. The major difference between him and Lamarck was that IoAC was a minor part of Darwin’s theory, whereas it was the centerpiece of Lamarck’s. Lamarck also allowed for some “diversions” in the Great Chain via what we would now call “adaptation”, which became the centerpiece of Darwin’s theory.

Well, the theory that other put into Lamarck’s mouth are indeed woth of ridicule. But Lamarck did not promulgate the weird strawman that Darwinists use to hold Lamarck up to ridicule. To quote further from that cite:
*However, as historians of science such as Michael Ghiselin and Stephen Jay Gould have pointed out, none of these views were original to Lamarck.[5][6] On the contrary, Lamarck’s contribution was a systematic theoretical framework for understanding evolution. He saw evolution as comprising two processes;

L’influence des circonstances (an adaptive force) - in which the use and disuse of characters led organisms to become more adapted to their environment. This would take organisms sideways off the path from simple to complex, specialising them for their environment.

Several historians have argued that Lamarck’s name is linked somewhat unfairly to the theory that has come to bear his name, and that Lamarck deserves credit for being an influential early proponent of the concept of biological evolution, far more than for the mechanism of evolution, in which he simply followed the accepted wisdom of his time. Lamarck died 30 years before the first publication of Charles Darwin’s Origin of Species. … Note also that Darwin, like Lamarck, lacked a plausible alternative mechanism of inheritance - the particulate nature of inheritance was only observed by Gregor Mendel somewhat later, and published in 1866. Its full significance was not appreciated until the Modern evolutionary synthesis in the early 1920s. An important point in its favour at the time was that Lamarck’s theory contained a mechanism describing how variation is maintained, which Darwin’s own theory lacked…
Forms of ‘soft’ or epigenetic inheritance within organisms have been suggested as neo-Lamarckian in nature by such scientists as Eva Jablonka and Marion J. Lamb…
While Lamarckism has been discredited as an evolutionary influence for larger lifeforms, some scientists controversially argue that it can be observed among microorganisms.[15] Whether such mutations are directed or not also remains a point of contention.

When Darwin was formulating his theory back in the 1850s, there was no such thing as genetics. (Well, Mendel was starting to figure it out, but he was basically ignored until the 20th century, so he doesn’t count.) As a result, Darwin could observe natural selection in action, and he was quite right about that, but nobody really knew the source of variation in individuals or how it was inherited. So this is where he was very wrong.

The main explanations for variation at the time were forms of pangenesis, where all of the body’s cells contribute to heredity, and Darwin was a big proponent of it. Pangenesis allowed some Lamarckian ideas, like the vague notion of loss through disuse, and it seemed to explain some other quirks of evolution that didn’t really make sense.

Of course, knowledge of modern genetics explains those quirks a lot better, but nobody had figured it out yet, so Darwin was stuck with an incomplete and incorrect understanding of the sources of variation that made things like cave fish very difficult to understand.

Basically, I’m in agreement with you. I am not someone who argues that evolutionary theory is incorrect, and I certainly do not espouse any religious, creationist or ID views. However, I think you are overstating the case, at least a little bit, and I have my doubts that it makes sense to refer to ‘observed facts’.

I believe there are some observed phenomena that give some people pause to question some tenets of evolution, and I think it should be possible to admit this without being regarded as either ignorant or a heretic. My own view is that in due course we will come to regard our current understanding of evolutionary theory as amusingly incomplete and primitive; that we will need to develop an understanding of many more factors and mechanisms that play a part, or that can affect, how species evolve before we really understand it properly.

I can perhaps best express my own views using a parallel. Newtonian mechanics were a brilliant step forward, and for a long time everything we could observe fitted Newtonian theory. Then we delved into other areas, we learned about special relativity and the quantum world, and we now say, ‘Newtonian theory works brilliantly well for lots of stuff, but it doesn’t quite cover everything, and for this other stuff we need to add on other theories and develop an understanding of other plausible mechanisms’. I think the same will happen with evolutionary theory.

I completely agree with what you say. The point I was trying to make is that it’s vanishingly unlikely for something to come along that causes us to throw out the window what we’ve learned so far and start over. We may have only built the first few floors of what will eventually be a towering skyscraper, but that skyscraper will be built on top of what we have now. The phrase “competing theory”, to me, would be something that requires us to tear it all down and move to the next lot down the block and begin rebuilding. Evolution is fact, and just because we don’t yet completely understand all of its parts doesn’t change that.

Indeed, the original Origin of Species is somewhat like that. Later info and discoveries have refined exactly how evolution works. The "natural selection’ engine seems to have a few small areas where it does not explain everything. But natural selection is a mechanism of Evolution. Evolution is a fact. How it occurs, that is Natural Selection- is a tested scientific Theory- which of course does not nessesarily mean it is the only mechanism of Evolution.

Evolution is still considered a theory? :frowning:

A scientific “theory” is a hypothesis that has been tested scientifically and found out to be true (at least in the tested cases). Note that the term “theory of evloution” refers mainly to the mechanism of evolution, not to the fact that evolution occurs.

"In practice a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a minimum empirical basis, according to certain criteria:

It is consistent with pre-existing theory, to the extent the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense.
It is supported by many strands of evidence, rather than a single foundation, ensuring it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct. "

Evolution is a theory in the same sense that gravity is a theory.

Intelligent Falling

To expand on that further, in science, a “theory” is the absolute pinnacle of idea-hood. There is no tier above “theory”. Evolution is an example of a scientific idea that we are so confident in, after so much observation and testing, that it has attained the vaunted height of “theory”. By contrast, the model so often called “string theory” is not actually a theory (at least, not yet), since it has not yet been thoroughly tested (or really, at all). Maybe someday we’ll figure out how to test it, and maybe it’ll pass those tests, in which case it will join evolution and relativity and the like as a theory, but it hasn’t happened yet.

In other words, it makes about as much sense to say that evolution is “only a theory” as it does to say that Barack Obama is “only the President of the US”, or that Benedict XVI is “only the Pope”. What more do you expect?

To become The All-Powerful Master Of Space, Time, And Dimension?

:slight_smile:

Cheers,

bcg