# Are there any conservative policies that were actually good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324 "2016-09-08T10:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/21 "2016-09-08T15:59:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What about the [students protesting against allowing certain speakers on campus](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/college-commencement-speakers-backing-out-trend)? > > Or this [thread](http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021351108)? > > Or this Vox [article](http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid)? What about some conservatives wanting to ban pornography, or ban public displays they consider blasphemous? Cranks on both side want to ban certain kinds of speech. Most people don’t want to restrict free speech – even those campus protests aren’t against free speech, they’re _part of free speech_. Students are free to say “I don’t like this speaker and I don’t think he should be welcome here”, or anything else. If they are advocating for laws banning those speakers, then that’s different – but saying “I don’t like what you have to say and I don’t think you should say it” is not anti-free speech in any way whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/22 "2016-09-08T16:04:08Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I recognize that this is a popular right-wing strawman of the left, but this is not remotely true. I believe it’s an accurate description. Here’s a cite: [40% of Millennials OK with limiting speech offensive to minorities | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/) > [@](#): > > We asked whether people believe that citizens should be able to make public statements that are offensive to minority groups, or whether the government should be able to prevent people from saying these things. > … > **Nearly twice as many Democrats say the government should be able to stop speech against minorities (35%) compared with Republicans (18%)**. There used to be a pretty broad consensus in this country around free speech, but I’ve felt like it’s eroded in recent years, pretty significantly. > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Calling someone out publically for racist, sexist, or homophobic speech is not the same thing as demanding suppression of free speech. **No liberal or progressive wants the government to censor speech, or jail or fine anyone for saying whatever might pop into their heads.** > > There’s a difference between saying someone is a jerk, and saying someone should be behind bars. This is demonstrably false ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/23 "2016-09-08T16:09:12Z")
Any liberal policy that works will, with time, become a conservative policy. Some things should be changed: It is the liberal’s role to change them. Some things should be kept the same: It is the conservative’s role to keep them. Note that this does not have much relation to the current state of American politics, which unfortunately lacks a conservative party. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/24 "2016-09-08T16:13:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What about some conservatives wanting to ban pornography, or ban public displays they consider blasphemous? > > Cranks on both side want to ban certain kinds of speech. Most people don’t want to restrict free speech – even those campus protests aren’t against free speech, they’re _part of free speech_. Students are free to say “I don’t like this speaker and I don’t think he should be welcome here”, or anything else. If they are advocating for laws banning those speakers, then that’s different – but saying “I don’t like what you have to say and I don’t think you should say it” is not anti-free speech in any way whatsoever. What do you think about, for example, snatching a microphone away from a speaker, or blowing whistles and yelling through a bullhorn over the top of a presenter so that no one can hear what he says? Do you consider both of those exercises in free speech? What about blocking the entrances to a building before a scheduled event to prevent those who would like to hear the speaker from assembling to do so? What about pressuring a college president to disinvite an offensive presenter? It’s not a “law”, but certainly a policy decision that prevents a voice from being heard. I consider actions designed to prevent someone else from hearing / being heard to be in contrary to the spirit of the First Amendment. Many of the latest campus protests seem to fall under this heading. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/25 "2016-09-08T16:19:11Z")
I think “privatization” of the VA is good idea. It makes way more sense for the VA to pay for veterans to go to the same doctors and hospitals as everybody else than it does for them to try to maintain their own separate facilities. The problem is that anyone who is really good at his or her job in a VA facility, from nurses to doctors to administrators, can probably make a lot more money elsewhere. That’s especially true with administrators, where the salary difference can be pretty substantial. This means that anyone left who is any good gets pulled up the chain quickly, a clear instance of the Peter Principle in action (that is, everyone gets promoted to their level of incompetence). Fixing those pay gaps is probably impossible and probably wouldn’t fix the problem entirely anyway. So there’s no good way for the VA not to have second-class facilities that are administrative train wrecks. They should maintain their counselors and social workers, and the details of how their benefits would work would be up in the air, but overall I think they’d probably serve veterans better if they didn’t have to focus on maintaining duplicated medical services. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/26 "2016-09-08T16:36:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What do you think about, for example, snatching a microphone away from a speaker, or blowing whistles and yelling through a bullhorn over the top of a presenter so that no one can hear what he says? Do you consider both of those exercises in free speech? What about blocking the entrances to a building before a scheduled event to prevent those who would like to hear the speaker from assembling to do so? What about pressuring a college president to disinvite an offensive presenter? It’s not a “law”, but certainly a policy decision that prevents a voice from being heard. > > I consider actions designed to prevent someone else from hearing / being heard to be in contrary to the spirit of the First Amendment. Many of the latest campus protests seem to fall under this heading. Some of them probably do, just as those on the right who have committed vandalism against material and displays they consider pornographic or blasphemous also oppose the first amendment for some things. But these are fringes of each side – in general, liberals poll higher (but still low) on support of banning hate speech, and conservatives poll higher (but still low) on support for banning obscenity and blasphemy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/27 "2016-09-08T16:46:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Some of them probably do, just as those on the right who have committed vandalism against material and displays they consider pornographic or blasphemous also oppose the first amendment for some things. But these are fringes of each side – in general, liberals poll higher (but still low) on support of banning hate speech, and conservatives poll higher (but still low) on support for banning obscenity and blasphemy. Cite for “conservatives poll higher (but still low) on support for banning obscenity and blasphemy”? I’ve never read a poll on that, but it sounds like an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/28 "2016-09-08T16:50:39Z")
No one seems to have mentioned _Citizens United_ in this thread. Democrats seem to generally support the idea of banning at least some political speech by associations of individuals. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/29 "2016-09-08T16:57:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Cite for “conservatives poll higher (but still low) on support for banning obscenity and blasphemy”? I’ve never read a poll on that, but it sounds like an interesting read. [Here you go.](http://www.theharrispoll.com/health-and-life/Censorship_2015.html) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/30 "2016-09-08T17:00:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No one seems to have mentioned _Citizens United_ in this thread. Democrats seem to generally support the idea of banning at least some political speech by associations of individuals. Pull your wallet out of your pocket. Open it up. Press your ear down to it. Do you hear anything? Money is not a form of speech. The Supreme Court may have declared it is, but the Supreme Court bungled that call. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/31 "2016-09-08T17:03:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No one seems to have mentioned _Citizens United_ in this thread. Democrats seem to generally support the idea of banning at least some political speech by associations of individuals. That presupposes equating money with speech, a view not everyone shares. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/32 "2016-09-08T17:03:42Z")
One the conservatives got right: the Cold War. I think a lot of liberals were too trusting of the Soviet Union. They were arguing for an equivalency that didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/33 "2016-09-08T17:06:17Z")
[Here’s another one](http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2015/11/Pew-Research-Center-Democracy-Report-FINAL-November-18-2015.pdf) – doesn’t break down between liberals and conservatives, but more people in the US support restricting sexually explicit speech than racist and bigoted speech… and I doubt the ones who want to ban obscene speech tend to be liberal. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/34 "2016-09-08T18:48:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pull your wallet out of your pocket. Open it up. Press your ear down to it. > > Do you hear anything? > > Money is not a form of speech. The Supreme Court may have declared it is, but the Supreme Court bungled that call. Citizens United wanted to make a movie criticizing HRC and advertise for it. Do you consider that an exercise free speech? I do. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/35 "2016-09-08T18:48:22Z")
Attempting to “normalize” at least certain types of pedophilia (largely through abolition or significant lowering of age of consent laws) as part of the Sexual Revolution ([as documented here](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/past-pedophile-links-haunt-german-green-party-a-899544.html)) has more or less failed, and in a historical reversal, many liberals and progressives have become as stern as conservatives in denouncing pedophilia albeit more on grounds of social justice. It’s clear that most gun control measures proposed by American liberals in the past generation or so have failed to actually reduce deaths from gun violence and are moreover unconstitutional given any reasonable reading of the Second Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/36 "2016-09-08T19:00:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It’s clear that most gun control measures proposed by American liberals in the past generation or so have failed to actually reduce deaths from gun violence and are moreover unconstitutional given any reasonable reading of the Second Amendment. Bullshit and bullshit, but to follow up would lead to a massive thread hijacking, so I’ll just end it with: BULLSHIT! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/37 "2016-09-08T19:02:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Bullshit and bullshit, but to follow up would lead to a massive thread hijacking, so I’ll just end it with: BULLSHIT! I urge you to read this [excellent article](http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/gun-control-is-a-misfire/) (by a leftist no less). For the record, I’m not saying all gun control measures are doomed to fail-something like repealing the Second Amendment and conducting a great “gun hunt” that would seize most of the firearms in this country probably would put a dent in gun-related violence but good luck with passing that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/38 "2016-09-08T19:04:47Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Attempting to “normalize” at least certain types of pedophilia (largely through abolition or significant lowering of age of consent laws) as part of the Sexual Revolution ([as documented here](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/past-pedophile-links-haunt-german-green-party-a-899544.html)) has more or less failed, and in a historical reversal, many liberals and progressives have become as stern as conservatives in denouncing pedophilia albeit more on grounds of social justice. > > It’s clear that most gun control measures proposed by American liberals in the past generation or so have failed to actually reduce deaths from gun violence and are moreover unconstitutional given any reasonable reading of the Second Amendment. None of this addresses the thread topic. It’s pretty much the opposite, trying to show how liberal policies were bad, when the topic is conservative policies which were good. The first one is also a fabrication by the alt-right, and I really wish you’d stop hanging out with them. You’re a smart kid, and you don’t need to be pulled that way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/39 "2016-09-08T19:14:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Citizens United wanted to make a movie criticizing HRC and advertise for it. Do you consider that an exercise free speech? I do. A movie is a form of speech; it’s expressing an idea. Paying somebody to make a movie is not a form of speech; it’s a campaign donation. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/40 "2016-09-08T19:16:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pull your wallet out of your pocket. Open it up. Press your ear down to it. > > Do you hear anything? > > Money is not a form of speech. The Supreme Court may have declared it is, but the Supreme Court bungled that call. This sounds like a whoosh. It’s very difficult to believe that anybody would actually believe that. After all, paintings and books don’t speak, either. They must not be protected by free speech principles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324.md?page=3)