# Are there any conservative policies that were actually good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324 "2016-09-08T10:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/41 "2016-09-08T19:17:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > None of this addresses the thread topic. It’s pretty much the opposite, trying to show how liberal policies were bad, when the topic is conservative policies which were good. I mean if those particular liberal policies were bad, doesn’t the reverse follow that the conservative policies on those issues are good or at least less worse (ie “we should retain the status quo on gun control”). > [@](#): > > The first one is also a fabrication by the alt-right, and I really wish you’d stop hanging out with them. You’re a smart kid, and you don’t need to be pulled that way. I agree that much of the Right often attempts to automatically link the gay and transgender rights movement to attempts to normalize pedophilia or pretend that everyone who is liberal supports it which are obviously false, but I don’t think you can deny that there was a genuine tendency on the part of some cultural radicals in the '70s and '80s who honestly seemed to think age of consent was yet another unnatural restriction on expressions. The article I provided isn’t exactly from an Alt Right source either. Ftr, I mostly follow the Alt Right out of a “know thy enemy” mentality and due to their success at dominating much of Internet discourse with many lefties my age or slightly older regularly use 4chan memes and vocab when discussing politics. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/42 "2016-09-08T19:18:33Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > This sounds like a whoosh. It’s very difficult to believe that anybody would actually believe that. > > After all, paintings and books don’t speak, either. They must not be protected by free speech principles. First Amendment also guarantees freedom of the press. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/43 "2016-09-08T19:23:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Citizens United wanted to make a movie criticizing HRC and advertise for it. Do you consider that an exercise free speech? I do. Sure, making a movie and advertising it is free speech. But you are conveniently leaving out the actual law, which was about campaign finance. It was about saying that money used to campaign is actually itself speech, and thus campaign financing can’t be regulated. This contradicts many other cases, but that was the ruling. The problem was not that they made a movie or advertised it. It was that they were trying to get around finance law, a law designed to deal with creating free speech by making sure that no one with money has more speech than someone without. The whole thing was just an end run around campaign finance laws. Trying to assert that the other side doesn’t support “freedom of speech” is a losing proposition. Even countries with hate speech laws believe they support freedom of speech. The issue is always about what people think freedom of speech is. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/44 "2016-09-08T19:43:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A movie is a form of speech; it’s expressing an idea. Paying somebody to make a movie is not a form of speech; it’s a campaign donation. Huh? Citizens United didn’t pay a politician to make the movie, at least AFAIK. I don’t believe that was the issue addressed in _Citizens United v FEC_ at least. Could you please elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/45 "2016-09-08T19:57:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sure, making a movie and advertising it is free speech. I’m glad we agree here. > [@BigT](#): > > But you are conveniently leaving out the actual law, which was about campaign finance. No. The FEC said Citizens United wasn’t allowed to ‘make a movie and advertise it’ (even though we both agree this is free speech) because they were doing it within X days of an election, and that their advertisements amounted to an “electioneering communication” because it mentioned a candidate’s name. It had nothing to do with financing a candidate’s campaign. They weren’t trying to give a politician money. > [@BigT](#): > > … finance law, a law designed to deal with creating free speech by making sure that no one with money has more speech than someone without. I don’t think that was the point of the law. Because it costs money to buy radio / television time and newspaper advertising space, or even a megaphone, rich people are almost certainly going to have a lot more “speech” than poor people. > [@BigT](#): > > The whole thing was just an end run around campaign finance laws. Which candidate’s campaign was Citizens United financing? If the answer you come up with is “no one’s”, can we agree that it had nothing to do with “campaign finance”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/46 "2016-09-08T20:12:16Z")
**Are there any conservative policies that were actually good?** Define “good”. Is it “good” that 1M fetuses are aborted every years? I’m OK with it. Conservatives, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/47 "2016-09-08T20:32:46Z")
The conservative justices’ position on Kelo vs New London was the correct one - the Federal Government should not have the power to take someone’s home to allow for a private factory. It was abuse of the definition of the Public Good. “Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms.” ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/48 "2016-09-08T20:39:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I believe it’s an accurate description. Here’s a cite: [40% of Millennials OK with limiting speech offensive to minorities | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/) > > There used to be a pretty broad consensus in this country around free speech, but I’ve felt like it’s eroded in recent years, pretty significantly. > > This is demonstrably false Okay, SO WHERE IN GIANT BLUE LETTERS is there a liberal or progressive who believes that someone spewing hateful speech should be jailed or fined by the government? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/49 "2016-09-08T20:44:49Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The conservative justices’ position on Kelo vs New London was the correct one - the Federal Government should not have the power to take someone’s home to allow for a private factory. It was abuse of the definition of the Public Good. “Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms.” I think a lot of liberals would claim that to be their policy, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/50 "2016-09-08T21:44:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think a lot of liberals would claim that to be their policy, too. Yes, that’s more of a small l libertarian viewpoint, and they are on both sides of the Liberal/Conservative spectrum. Conservatives used to be about controlling government spending, which is a good idea, in principle. Of course, now they are about controlling government spending only on things they are against, while massively overspending on things like the military. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/51 "2016-09-08T21:52:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I believe it’s an accurate description. Here’s a cite: [40% of Millennials OK with limiting speech offensive to minorities | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/) Interesting choice of topics. Is your argument that Republicans don’t want to limit speech offensive to minorities because they’re all about free speech? Because I can think of another, just as plausible reason why Republicans might not want that sort of speech banned. Meanwhile, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to favour making burning or desecrating a flag illegal. Go free speech! ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/52 "2016-09-08T22:42:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pull your wallet out of your pocket. Open it up. Press your ear down to it. > > Do you hear anything? > > Money is not a form of speech. The Supreme Court may have declared it is, but the Supreme Court bungled that call. Have signs with your political thought printed. Open up your wallet to pay for the signs. Have the government step in and tell you that you cannot pay for the signs because money != speech. The Supreme Court did not bungle the call. Slee ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/53 "2016-09-08T22:44:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Interesting choice of topics. Is your argument that Republicans don’t want to limit speech offensive to minorities because they’re all about free speech? Because I can think of another, just as plausible reason why Republicans might not want that sort of speech banned. Meanwhile, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to favour making burning or desecrating a flag illegal. Go free speech! If your argument is that 77% of Republicans are hateful racists because they don’t think the government should limit free speech, then it also applies to 60% of Democrats and 68% of independents. Do you really think that ~2/3 Americans oppose the government banning offensive statements because they are hateful racists? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/54 "2016-09-08T22:46:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think a lot of liberals would claim that to be their policy, too. Too bad none of those liberals were on the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/55 "2016-09-08T23:27:36Z")
The problem is in the general outlook of the ideologies. “Conservatism” wants to preserve things as they are or change things back to what they were. Given that time stops for no one, eventually all conservative policies need to be updated, changed, or eliminated. In comes liberalism. With “liberalism”, the driving force seems to be to change things as society changes. No tradition is sacred, no belief too ironclad to change, no fact cannot be improved upon. Sometimes, sure, the change can be too quick, or too different. Sometimes its worth preserving a tradition/culture/law for a little while longer, but never forever. Even the Constitution should not be sacred. What I’ve noticed in recent years, especially during this election, is that conservatives spend an inordinate amount of time trying to go back to some mythical pre-history where America was the pinnacle of human civilization. No acknowledgement that as times change, society should change with it. Whether its gay or trans rights, now is never quite the right time for it, better wait until later. Unless we’re talking about voting rights, then its back to before the Voting Rights Act. When the populist face of the GOP is a guy who wants to make America great “again”, inferring we’ve somehow past that point in our history, then you cannot deny that conservatism is preoccupied with this utopian Eden that only they think exist. I’ve no problems with conservative policies some times, but often they seem to be too late, or smacks of an earlier era that society’s moved past, or preserving some harmful shit that we should have long ago grown past. Conservative policy is fine if you’re a time traveler from the future legislating the past. For the present, or for looking ahead, I’m not so thrilled with it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/56 "2016-09-08T23:50:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If your argument is that 77% of Republicans are hateful racists because they don’t think the government should limit free speech, then it also applies to 60% of Democrats and 68% of independents. Do you really think that ~2/3 Americans oppose the government banning offensive statements because they are hateful racists? No. But I think as a measure of “support for free speech” the results of that question will be skewed by a greater number of “hateful racists” among Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/57 "2016-09-09T00:03:46Z")
The OP is, to a certain extent, like a traveller in a foreign land asking why there isn’t any good tasting food there. If you’re a liberal, your premise of what is good is going to dictate your not liking conservative policies. But that’s because, at a fundamental level, you disagree with conservatives about what is “good”. The point I made about abortion earlier can be applied to lots of social polices and even foreign policy. Is it “good” for the US to have a huge military advantage over every country in the world? Well, if you’re a conservative it is. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/58 "2016-09-09T00:04:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > No. The FEC said Citizens United wasn’t allowed to ‘make a movie and advertise it’ (even though we both agree this is free speech) because they were doing it within X days of an election, and that their advertisements amounted to an “electioneering communication” because it mentioned a candidate’s name. It had nothing to do with financing a candidate’s campaign. They weren’t trying to give a politician money. > … Which human was legally forbidden to ‘make a movie and advertise it’ under McCain-Feingold? Kindly name one. I’m not aware of any constitutional requirement that corporations are required to be recognized by the US government at all. The constitution recognizes the right of people to peaceably assemble, but does not specify any legal rights or recognition such assemblies may or may not have. The word corporation does not appear in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/59 "2016-09-09T00:11:10Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I honestly cannot agree with any legislation passed by conservatives, or policy upheld by conservatives. Does anyone got a few examples of how conservatives may somehow be beneficial to society? I could rant for days about how conservatives literally destroy society and halt progress, but there has to be some sort of reasonable logic behind conservative views. > > There must be something they have proposed that is half decent. Maybe upholding the constitution counts as a conservative policy? It’s a stretch, but that’s all I can think of. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324/60 "2016-09-09T00:22:39Z")
EITC - One of the most effective tools we have for fighting poverty among the working poor was a Republican proposal (although it got broad bipartisan support.) Expansions of it are more a talking point anymore; Republicans don’t support that in any kind of numbers when it comes to actual new proposals. Still last December, faced with expiring provisions that could have let a Republican majority cut social spending by simply doing nothing, they made those provisions permanent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-conservative-policies-that-were-actually-good/765324.md?page=4)