# Are there any culturally controversial teachings in the New Testament? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481 "2007-03-03T23:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/21 "2007-03-04T06:36:32Z")
One other repeated theme, in both the Old and New Testament, that modern people might find surprising is the clear anti-dog bias in the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/22 "2007-03-04T06:43:07Z")
Paul says some wack stuff–like how women shouldn’t speak in church, but if they have questions, wait until they get home and ask their husbands. He also has the wives-be-submissive-to-your-husbands crap, which (unfortunately) is not as culturally controversial as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/23 "2007-03-04T07:26:58Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] One other repeated theme, in both the Old and New Testament, that modern people might find surprising is the clear anti-dog bias in the Bible. [/QUOTE] Could be worse, the domestic cat is never mentioned in the old or new testaments. _Come to think of it, no mention of the human brain either_. One pet peeve ( 🙂 ) of mine came when years ago I was listening to a preacher on the radio claiming that if a miracle or wonder was not mentioned in the bible, that then other miracles of other faiths were then false or the work of the devil. I then thought that that could mean that cats too then never existed or are the work of the devil, but then that would apply to the human brain. The mind boggles.. ..If one still insists the Bible is inerrant. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/24 "2007-03-04T07:42:24Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] …_Come to think of it, no mention of the human brain either_… [/QUOTE] Brain and brain, what is _brain_? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/25 "2007-03-04T08:53:11Z")
Umm… How about the part about God killing his son? I can not even really understand it to tell you the truth. OK. Let me know if I have it right because I see it in an outlandish crazed thing. > [@](#): > > \*\* > John 3:16\*\* > For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Is this the same? A dear friend owes me a debt. The debt is really making things difficult between us. He has shame and can no longer really face me and I am tempted to poison him a bit. I really like him so I think up of a great Idea. I will send my son to his house to take the burden of the debt and then kill my son. If he believes that my son has taken the burdon then the debt is washed away no more debt (the new debt holder is dead) and now he is welcome back over for dinner and doesn’t have to avoid my phone calls anymore. Any time he accrues new debt from me he can sign it over to the dead guy/my son. Seems a bit controversial to me. I don’t think this would go over in the modern day. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/26 "2007-03-04T12:31:53Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] I’m surprised no one has mentioned anything from Revelations yet, which is pretty much the kookiest, most insane book in the whole compendium. You’ve basically got God raining a billion 9/11s on the earth for kicks. [/QUOTE] I think people see aspects of Revelation coming true in one form or another, even non-believers can see it. The latest craze is the man made global warming disaster, which I really haven’t related to Revelation, as I really think AWG is bunk, but before that we have the threat of nuclear war, and the nuclear winter, which can correspond to the 4 horsemen (war\>disease\>famine\>death), the darkening of the sky/sun/moon/stars. Not to say that non-believers see Revelation as coming true, but they do see disasters coming. Another aspect that non-believers can see coming is the mark of the beast, a implanted RFID tag that would take the place of cash and credit/debit - though they will not call it the mark of the beast, just ‘progress’. One aspect of Revelation that would fit the OP would be that not only 1/3rd of the sun’s & moon’s light will be struck, and 1/3rd of the stars will disapear from the sky - which a nuclear winter, volcano, or asteroid strike could easially cause, but it seems like there will be 1/3 of the daytime with no light, and 1/3rd of the night with no light. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/27 "2007-03-05T10:29:37Z")
Let me see if I’m clear on this. Here’s what the Book of Revelation says: There’s this guy named John. Jesus, who is described as having brass feet and a sword coming out of his mouth, appears to John one day and tells him how the world will end. God will be sitting on his throne in Heaven with twenty-four old men sitting on their thrones around him. Four creatures will also be there, looking like a lion, a cow, a man, and an eagle, each with six wings and a body covered in eyes. Then a zombie lamb with seven eyes will come up and the old guys and the creatures will all start playing harps and singing to it. And then the lamb starts opening doors and behind every door is an evil being riding a horse (each one a different color) and the bad guys ride down to Earth and kill people. And then dead people rise from the grave and there’s an earthquake and the sun turns black and the moon turns red and stars crash into the earth. And then four angels will come down and pick out 144,000 people and take them back to Heaven. Then there’ll be thirty minute intermission. Then seven angels will announce the start of the second act with a trumpet concert. And there’ll be another earthquake and lightning and volcanoes and more stars will crash into the earth and the sea will turn into blood and something about wormwood will happen. Then giant iron locusts that look like horses except with human faces will attack for five months. And then an army riding fire-breathing horse with lion heads will attack for exactly nine thousand five hundred and twenty nine hours. Then an angel appeared, who was wearing a cloud, and he gives John a book and tells him to eat it. Which John does. And then another earthquake starts Act Three. A red dragon with seven heads and ten horns will attack a pregnant woman. But then the woman gets some wings and flys away and has a son, who takes over the world. And a bunch of angels attack the dragon, who turns out to be Satan. So Satan has a leopard, with seven heads and feet like a bear, jump out of the ocean and attack the angels, which he does by swearing at them. Then there’s the grand finale. It’s a big battle and everyone’s there: all the people who are left, the angels, the old guys, the creatures, the zombies, the dragon, the leopard. And the angels start the attack by pouring poison over everything. And then there’s a hailstorm and a woman wearing a purple dress and some stuff about Babylon and a bunch of people declaring bankruptcy. And then the leader of the good guys rides in on a white horse, leading an army of birds, and he has the birds eat all the bad guys. Except for Satan who gets locked up. But he escapes a thousand years later and trys one more attack but gets set on fire. And that’s pretty much the end. Jesus gets married and everybody that’s still around gets into heaven except for sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, people who used cheesy pick-up lines, and dogs. And all of this you can accept at face value. But global warming you feel is bunk. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/28 "2007-03-05T10:51:36Z")
There’s [Mark 16:17-18](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:17-18;&version=31;): > [@](#): > > And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well. Exorcisms? Well, OK, they’ve made major motion pictures about that. Speaking in tongues? I believe the charismatic churches are some of the fastest-growing churches in Christianity, but the phenomenon probably still seems a little weird to those people who are not part of those churches. Faith-healing, in the age of modern medicine, is definitely getting “out there”. Snake-handling (and drinking poison) though, is clearly right out; even the vast majority of charismatic Christians don’t do those. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/29 "2007-03-05T12:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Let me see if I’m clear on this. Here’s what the Book of Revelation says: There’s this guy named John. Jesus, who is describe… …And all of this you can accept at face value. But global warming you feel is bunk. [/QUOTE] Makes a heck of a lot more sense then a fat guy in a big house flying around in a private jet telling us to cut down on our fuel consumption or the world will end. Hmmm I wonder if that private jet is white, and for that matter horse shaped. BTW it was not Christ who came to John, but the Angel of Christ, and some of the other details you have are incorrect, but basically if taken as a story alone it’s pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/30 "2007-03-05T13:01:28Z")
This should be controversial, but Christian evangelicals don’t seem to recall what Jesus commanded when he charged the apostles to spread the Word: > [@](#): > > [Matthew 10:5-6](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&version=31) > > These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. Who will rid me of these troublesome missionaries? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/31 "2007-03-05T14:07:34Z")
As recently came up in a thread about the Jehovah Witnesses’ practice of shunning loved ones who try to get out of abusive families: > [@](#): > > Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law–a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. > > Matthew 10:34-37 > [@](#): > > If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters–yes, even his own life–he cannot be my disciple. > > Luke 14:26 It ain’t all “love thy neighbor”, people! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/32 "2007-03-05T14:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? [I Corinthians 11:14](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=11&verse=13&end_verse=15&version=9&context=context) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/33 "2007-03-05T14:43:34Z")
And I think a lot of modern conservative Christians would have trouble with the socialistic (even _communistic_) practices of the early Christians: > [@](#): > > And all that believed were together, and had all things common; > > And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. [Acts 2:44-45](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%202:44-45;&version=9;) ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/34 "2007-03-05T14:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] I’m surprised no one has mentioned anything from Revelations yet, which is pretty much the kookiest, most insane book in the whole compendium. You’ve basically got God raining a billion 9/11s on the earth for kicks. [/QUOTE] Man, this is sad. People insist on reading the Bible as Gospel (heh) when it’s allegory and when they know zero about context. Especially Revelations. At the time that part was written, there was a tradition of telling apocryphal tales - Revelation is a form and a style that was common those days. If people really want their ignorance fought, they ought not be thinking they understand what they’re reading in the Bible without reading some sort of good background information with it. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/35 "2007-03-05T16:01:28Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] Context: [Matthew 26:6-13](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2026:6-13;&version=31;) (or [Mark 14: 3-9](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2014:3-9;&version=31;), or [John 12:1-8](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2012:1-8;&version=31;)) A woman comes to Jesus with a jar of very expensive perfume, and annoints him with it. **Judas Iscariot was appaled because he was a thief** and thought that the perfume should have been sold, and the money given to the poor. Jesus told them that they would always have the poor with them, but they would not always have him. Important note: this is shortly before he is killed. (It depends on which Gospel you read whether it is described before or after the triumphal entry into Jerusalem, now celebrated/rememberd as Palm Sunday). _(Links to passages added.)_ [/QUOTE] > [@Eureka](#): > > … **I left out the part where it says that Judas kept the common purse and used to steal what was put in it.** So if the perfume had been sold, the money wouldn’t really have gone to the poor. Only John, the last-written of the gospels, spins it that way. Both Mark and Matthew, written earlier and closer to the events, suggest a general objection among the disciples (not limited to Judas), and that the disciples (plural) thought the perfume should be sold and the money distributed to the poor. One gets the sense that John was adding a little Judas-bashing embellishment to the story. That Judas gets a lot of bad press. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/36 "2007-03-05T23:31:06Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] What’s the problem with that? I don’t know the context, but isn’t the meaning that there will always be a group of people who less fortunate than ‘us’? [/QUOTE] What bothers me about it is that if he’s God, he’s presumably ominiscient, and he’s telling us unambiguously that mankind will never solve the problem of poverty, which might lead a good Christian to figure that there’s no good reason for social programs aimed at eliminating poverty, and could also lead to “poverty cults” where good Christians help the poor out but not do anything to improve their lot in life, something Mother Teresa has been accused of. I think I had more points to make, but I can’t think of them now. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/37 "2007-03-06T00:14:25Z")
1 Peter 2:18: “Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also the froward.” I would think that a book with such steep penalties for relatively minor infractions would have a zero tolerance approach to slavery, which we all pretty much revile, but apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/38 "2007-03-06T02:03:01Z")
> [@](#): > > **kanicbird** : …which can correspond to the 4 horsemen (war\>disease\>famine\>death) [/quote] I’m trying to think of a time in history when War, Disease, Famine and Death _haven’t_ been a threat. > [@](#): > > **kanicbird** : Makes a heck of a lot more sense then a fat guy in a big house flying around in a private jet telling us to cut down on our fuel consumption or the world will end. Sweet bird, it irritates me too that Mr. Gore doesn’t set a better example, especially at home if those rumors are true. (Is he still flying in a private jet? I don’t much think so. There was a ruckus recently about why he was supposed to go through airport security.) But I cannot ignore the science of what he has to say just because he thinks he is entitled to special privileges. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/39 "2007-03-06T05:20:45Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Paul says some wack stuff–like how women shouldn’t speak in church, but if they have questions, wait until they get home and ask their husbands. He also has the wives-be-submissive-to-your-husbands crap, which (unfortunately) is not as culturally controversial as it should be. [/QUOTE] I’ve always thought that the really wacky stuff isn’t actually in the Pauline epistles but in the deutro-Pauline epistles. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481/40 "2007-03-06T06:35:38Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] I’ve always thought that the really wacky stuff isn’t actually in the Pauline epistles but in the deutro-Pauline epistles. [/QUOTE] Ooh, now you have to give examples. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-culturally-controversial-teachings-in-the-new-testament/394481.md?page=3)