# Are there any cultures who (which?) haven't kept dogs as pets? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466 "2011-08-12T16:18:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pheline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pheline/32/5483_2.png) [@Pheline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pheline)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/1 "2011-08-12T16:18:19Z")
Either traditional or contemporary is fine to ponder. We have the idea of “(hu)man’s best friend” but is that universal? ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/2 "2011-08-12T16:27:14Z")
> [@Pheline](#): > > Either traditional or contemporary is fine to ponder. We have the idea of “(hu)man’s best friend” but is that universal? **Pheline** Modern Saudi does not allow dogs as pets. Dogs can be kept around as watchdogs or as herding dogs but not as pets. There were several items in the newspapers over there about this. A few Saudis DO keep dogs as pets but they always claim it is a watchdog if they are challenged. I brought a 10 year old yellow Lab to Saudi and had to get papers from the US State Department declaring him to be a watchdog. Very weird. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/3 "2011-08-12T16:30:24Z")
North Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/4 "2011-08-12T17:09:53Z")
My husband is from a south-central Asian Islamic country. In his culture-of-origin, dogs are seen as unclean animals. He is very Westernized in his outlook and we have three dogs. He will pet them, but immediately washes his hands afterwards. FWIW, I have seen many printed sources claim that Muslims consider all dogs unclean, but an exception is made for a specific sighthound breed which is used for hunting. The two breeds mentioned most often are the [Sloughi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloughi), and the [Saluki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluki). There’s a lot of argument among the experts about which breed it is, so I’m not sure if I can provide you with any cites to what can be considered as a “definitive” answer. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/5 "2011-08-12T17:23:25Z")
As mentioned already, many Muslim countries don’t have a culture of keeping dogs as pets. Some people may do it, but it is certainly not the norm, although as mentioned above, people do keep working dogs to protects herds or property. When I was in Afghanistan, a common slur against Afghans working with/for foreigners was the term “dog washer” meaning that they were doing undignified, filthy work. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/6 "2011-08-12T18:05:24Z")
In Saudi it is the Saluki which can be kept for hunting. I will say that most Saudis are fascinated by dogs, especially large ones. My previous dog in Saudi was a Husky - St Bernard cross. Huge dog, blue eyes, very scary looking. Whenever I went somewhere with him the Saudis would be all around him, pushing each other toward him and generally acting like he was a Bengal tiger or the like. Testy ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/7 "2011-08-12T19:28:18Z")
I think some oriental cultures only consider dogs as food. There aren’t pets in the Bible - the parable of Dives and Lazarus is usually considered about scavengers and not family pets. The presence of pets in any culture I assume suggests that there is some surplus of food that humans don’t need. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/8 "2011-08-12T19:42:23Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > There aren’t pets in the Bible - the parable of Dives and Lazarus is usually considered about scavengers and not family pets. The presence of pets in any culture I assume suggests that there is some surplus of food that humans don’t need. The concept of a pet is certainly in the bible: [QUOTE=2 Samuel 12] 2 The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. [/QUOTE] (Nathan rebuking King David for the murder of Uriah) And the value of a pet over just livestock is expressed for taking the life of that animal: > [@](#): > > 4 “Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him.” 5 David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this must die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/9 "2011-08-14T17:06:09Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The concept of a pet is certainly in the bible: Yet there is no respect for dogs, which I have [pointed out before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3047000#post3047000): > [@](#): > > I just did [a search of the Bible for occurences of the word “dog”](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?searchpage=0&SearchWholeWords=&restrict=&StartRestrict=&EndRestrict=&rpp=&search=dog&SearchType=dog&language=english&version=NIV&x=15&y=13), and was surprised that of the 40-some references in the entire Book, they were all used in a disparaging manner, either to insult someone by comparing them to a dog, or curse them with devouring by dogs or the like. Not one reference to the intelligence or loyalty of dogs, or of bring “man’s best friend” or of hunting dogs, or guard dogs, or any of the positive roles dogs have played in the history of man. > > A few examples: > > > [@](#): > > > > **2 Kings 9:10** > > \*\*As for Jezebel, dogs will devour her on the plot of ground at Jezreel, and no one will bury her. Then he opened the door and ran. \*\* > > > > **Psalm 22:20** > > \*\*Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. \*\* > > > > **Proverbs 26:11** > > **As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.** > > > > **Philippians 3:2** > > **Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh.** > > > > **Revelation 22:15** > > \*\*Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. \*\* > > **Jesus himself has only two thoughts about dogs, and both are derogatory:** > > > > **Quote:** > > **Matthew 7:6** > > **Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs.** > > > > **Matthew 15:26** > > \*\*He replied, "It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs. \*\* > > I think this is a telling reflection on the Author of the Bible; if Divine, then He obviously lacks any appreciation the sublime nature of His own creation, and if from the hands of men, it surely was the work of craven, mean-spirited cynophobes. > > I do not accept the argument that the Bible reflects a society-wide low opinion of dogs in those days. Dogs have been domesticated for over 12,000 years, with roles that were then much more integrated into survival than they are today. I simply do not believe that dogs were actually reviled with the bitterness reflected in the Bible. > > Can anyone defend the Bible’s disdain for our canine friends, or is it indicative of the Deity that would have us believe that He is all about unconditional love, then scorns the one ideal example of that sentiment? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/10 "2011-08-14T17:13:13Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > North Korea? Indeed. [North Korea bans dogs as pets.](http://foolocracy.com/2011/03/north-korea-bans-dogs-as-pets-market-price-of-dog-meat-drops/) ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/11 "2011-08-14T17:40:07Z")
What do you define as a ‘pet’? If it’s keeping and feeding an animal more as a luxury rather than a working animal which pays it’s keep, letting it live inside your home, and treating it with nearly the same kindness you would a child; the vast majority of all cultures over time have not done this with dogs. There simply weren’t enough resources to waste on feeding an animal who did not perform a specific function, and it’s a very modern thing to regard animals with such tender, maternal feelings. Even now, in most places in the world, dogs are either used for a job like hunting, guarding, herding, transportation (which does not necessarily earn them gentle treatment or more food than they need to survive) or they are ‘pariah’ dogs which roam villages/cities in a state of constant starvation, and usually get horribly abused by most humans they encounter, who consider them filthy vermin or one small step above. As mentioned by PPs Islam considers dogs ritually unclean, so you see very low opinions of dogs in most Islamic countries in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. You really only see ‘pets’ in wealthy and technologically advanced counties, or in specific circumstances (monarchs/nobles and monks for instance have been much more likely, historically, to keep pet dogs, and are responsible for creating many of our modern small ‘companion’ breeds). The ‘man’s best friend’ thing is a recent European invention, originating in the upper class. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/12 "2011-08-14T17:47:33Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > My husband is from a south-central Asian Islamic country. In his culture-of-origin, dogs are seen as unclean animals. He is very Westernized in his outlook and we have three dogs. He will pet them, but immediately washes his hands afterwards. I’m not Asian or Muslim and I do the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/13 "2011-08-14T17:53:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Indeed. > > [North Korea bans dogs as pets.](http://foolocracy.com/2011/03/north-korea-bans-dogs-as-pets-market-price-of-dog-meat-drops/) You could have linked straight to the _Korea Times_ article referenced by that website. The blog post itself is little more than a sensationalistic propaganda piece appealing to the prurient interests of those who are ignorant of Asian culture in general and the situation in North Korea in particular. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/14 "2011-08-14T18:33:13Z")
I think dogs as pets are growing in the Middle East and Asia. I base that on the questions I see on dog sites. I see quite a few from India plus ones from Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the Philippines, and others I may have forgotten. Many of the questions are quite basic and show little knowledge of dogs. They do seem to have some access to vets. The 2 dog foods most mentioned are Pedigree and Royal Canin. It could be the people I see are early adopters. It is true that the dog takes a beating in the Bible. That is to be expected in speaking to a cuture that saw them as unclean. Admonitions for good treatment of animals are in the Bible if you look. Of course one example of permissible activity on the Sabbath is rescuing your donkey from a pit. The biggest thing is that if God looks after us like a shepherd, then the standards for shepherds must have been quite high. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/15 "2011-08-14T19:18:53Z")
[Sorry about bad formatting. Don’t have the hang of nested quotes, nor of how to work with text that is no longer on my ipad screen. Hence the latter quotations beginning with Phillipians simply go along for the ride. My replies are bracketed. This reply will continue in my next post. Whew!] **Fear Itself** writes: 2Kings 9:10 As for Jezebel, dogs will devour her on the plot of ground at Jezreel, and no one will bury her. Then he opened the door and ran. [Dogs _will_ devour fresh carrion. They’re dogs. The statement is regarding Jezebel.] Psalm 22:20 Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. [Dogs _can_ kill, an outcome as definite as a sword’s work. A psalm line is overwhelmingly in the form " A, what’s more, B. " Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. Dogs _do_ return to lap up it’s vomit, as every dog owner knows. (What’s particularly gross is it will start licking _your_ vomit if the occasion arises.) See comment above about simple intensification; the line is obviously directed to “a fool.” Philippians 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Jesus himself has only two thoughts about dogs, and both are derogatory: Quote: Matthew 7:6 Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. Matthew 15:26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs. I think this is a telling reflection on the Author of the Bible; if Divine, then He obviously lacks any appreciation the sublime nature of His own creation, and if from the hands of men, it surely was the work of craven, mean-spirited cynophobes. I do not accept the argument that the Bible reflects a society-wide low opinion of dogs in those days. Dogs have been domesticated for over 12,000 years, with roles that were then much more integrated into survival than they are today. I simply do not believe that dogs were actually reviled with the bitterness reflected in the Bible. Can anyone defend the Bible’s disdain for our canine friends, or is it indicative of the Deity that would have us believe that He is all about unconditional love, then scorns the one ideal example of that sentiment? ---
**Author:** ![Melysnl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@Melysnl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melysnl)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/16 "2011-08-14T22:24:07Z")
I just finished a stint teaching English in South Korea and there are indeed many dog meat restaurants around. People keep small dogs as pets but I didn’t see any large dogs as pets. Hundreds of farms still exist where they breed dogs and unecessarily kill them for their meat. I don’t care if it’s their culture. It’s barbaric and disgusting! I can’t imagine that the Koreans will take the initiative and ban the practice anytime soon either because it’s very lucrative for the farmers. A neighbor of mine bought a dog and killed it right in front of me and a friend. Beyond gruesome (seriously unreal) and one of the most unforgettable moments I had in Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/17 "2011-08-14T22:27:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not Asian or Muslim and I do the same thing. I was going to say that, too. I do it, too – at least, before I eat. Even though I love dogs, they’re not exactly the cleanest of animals… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/18 "2011-08-15T01:17:11Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Can anyone defend the Bible’s disdain for our canine friends, or is it indicative of the Deity that would have us believe that He is all about unconditional love, then scorns the one ideal example of that sentiment? [Moderator Note] **Leo Bloom** , this is General Questions. Let’s not get involved in a debate about the nature of the deity; if you wish to do so, open a thread in GD. No warning issued. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/19 "2011-08-15T01:29:19Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > FWIW, I have seen many printed sources claim that Muslims consider all dogs unclean… Is this due to a specific prohibition by Mohammed, or is it just a cultural practice? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466/20 "2011-08-15T02:09:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderator Note] > > **Leo Bloom** , this is General Questions. Let’s not get involved in a debate about the nature of the deity; if you wish to do so, open a thread in GQ. No warning issued. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Sure. I didn’t plan to at all, but stick to the Biblical excerpts only as text. As I said, I don’t/didn’t know how to deal with text beyond my input window, so I just copied the whole message of **Fear Itself**. Sorry for the impression otherwise. Ditto to **Fear itself**. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-cultures-who-which-havent-kept-dogs-as-pets/592466.md?page=2)