# Are there any DNA-based diversity benefits?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 9, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263 "2015-04-09T21:06:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/1 "2015-04-09T21:06:06Z")
I recently had my DNA analyzed by 23andMe. The results weren’t that surprising and correlate reasonably well with my family’s documented paper genealogy.
I got to wondering - there are plenty of pro-diversity programs (e.g. Affirmative Action) that depend on a person’s self-declaration of ethnicity and/or registration with an applicable ethnic authority (e.g. tribal enrollment in the US). Are there any programs that grant a benefit based solely or largely based on a person’s DNA test results? E.g. “Ah, your DNA shows Ostrogothic markers here, here, here, and also here. Here, have a minority scholarship. You might also want to apply to work at ConglomoWorks - there was an article last week about how they currently have a lot of Etruscans, Trojans, Phrygians, and Celtiberians working for them and that management was hoping to fill out their diversity by hiring a few more Ostrogoths, Galicians, Lepontii, and maybe a Fir Bolg or two. Good luck!”
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### Author:  [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/2 "2015-04-09T21:43:24Z")
Of course not. The whole point of programs to “increase diversity” is for large, mainly white-male dominated institutions to show the \*appearance \*of doing something about the problem.
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### Author:  [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/3 "2015-04-10T22:13:23Z")
> [@Habeed](#):
>
> Of course not. The whole point of programs to “increase diversity” is for large, mainly white-male dominated institutions to show the \*appearance \*of doing something about the problem.
In my institution, in which I’m one of the dominant white males, we really want a bigger variety in the life stories and experiences of our company. I really try to find and keep people who are different from me in classic (and other) demographic ways.
I think the DNA approach wouldn’t fly because it’s invasive and nonstandard. I bet it’s illegal, too, but I can’t see it getting used whether legal or not. And the DNA doesn’t matter. In some senses there is no such thing as race, but in another sense, if taxicabs keep passing you and picking me up based on our appearances, we’re having different experiences, and on average we’d make a more creative and wiser team the more different experiences we had.
Maybe you’re right about the point of some, or most, programs. However some programs really want diversity.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/4 "2015-04-10T22:23:23Z")
I agree with Napier, and think most affirmative action programs are seeking diversity. You’re not going to get that from DNA, as they’re not looking for biological diversity, but diversity of culture and experiences. Traits that can only be seen via DNA analysis won’t tell us anything about what life experiences you have had. (or very little, anyway)
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### Author:  [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/5 "2015-04-10T23:09:16Z")
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> I agree with Napier, and think most affirmative action programs are seeking diversity. You’re not going to get that from DNA, as they’re not looking for biological diversity, but diversity of culture and experiences. Traits that can only be seen via DNA analysis won’t tell us anything about what life experiences you have had. (or very little, anyway)
I think this is largely the case. If you have to take a DNA test to find out that you have X ancestry, then the fact that you have X ancestry probably hasn’t affected your life that much to make you “diverse”. If you take a DNA test and find out that you probably have had one or two Ostrogothic ancestors within the past few thousand years, that’s probably news to you. You probably haven’t gone most of your life being mocked as “Gothy the Ostrich” and spending several summers on grandma’s knee learning to speak Ostrogothic and learning about the special practices of your ancestors, which of course she expects you to preserve.
Anyone know of any programs whatsoever that do do this? I don’t think it’s going to be common, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there exists at least one or two somewhere.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/6 "2015-04-11T00:16:16Z")
> [@Habeed](#):
>
> Of course not. The whole point of programs to “increase diversity” is for large, mainly white-male dominated institutions to show the \*appearance \*of doing something about the problem.
**Moderator Warning**
**Habeed** , you’ve been around long enough to know political jabs are not permitted in General Questions. This is an official warning. Do not do this again.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/7 "2015-04-11T00:27:16Z")
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> I agree with Napier, and think most affirmative action programs are seeking diversity. You’re not going to get that from DNA, as they’re not looking for biological diversity, but diversity of culture and experiences. Traits that can only be seen via DNA analysis won’t tell us anything about what life experiences you have had. (or very little, anyway)
We wish that was so. But I was just reading a posting by a person who got into an Ivy League college on the basis of her school district. Plus the excellent academic record, due in part to the selective program within that school district, but probably mostly due to the her cultural background with White PhD qualified parents. And she reports that the only other person from her school district that has ever done as well also had White parents with Higher Degrees.
In other words, they really are only going through the motions of looking for cultural diversity and experience. And that could be fabricated from DNA just as easily as it can be fabricated from school district.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/8 "2015-04-11T00:31:30Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> Anyone know of any programs whatsoever that do do this? I don’t think it’s going to be common, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there exists at least one or two somewhere.
I would be. We discussed 23andMe elsewhere. It’s somewhere between inadequate and a scam. I would hope that no responsible company would base decisions on it.
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### Author:  [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/9 "2015-04-11T12:54:23Z")
By the way, I did 23AndMe and also Ancestry DNA. One said I was part Oceanian, meaning the indigenous peoples of Polynesia and nearby places. The other test said I was 40% Scandinavian. I’m pretty sure neither of these is true, and the tests disagreed with each other about both items. So, I doubt using DNA testing of the type that is sold to the masses would even work from a purely analytic point of view, let alone for any practical purposes.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/10 "2015-04-11T13:53:54Z")
Consumer whole-DNA reading today is 21st century phrenology. By the end of the century it may be improved into something useful, or be relegated to the dustbin of history.
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### Author:  [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/11 "2015-04-12T13:38:17Z")
> [@Melbourne](#):
>
> We wish that was so. But I was just reading a posting by a person who got into an Ivy League college on the basis of her school district. Plus the excellent academic record, due in part to the selective program within that school district, but probably mostly due to the her cultural background with White PhD qualified parents. And she reports that the only other person from her school district that has ever done as well also had White parents with Higher Degrees.
>
> In other words, they really are only going through the motions of looking for cultural diversity and experience. And that could be fabricated from DNA just as easily as it can be fabricated from school district.
There certainly are some organizations just going through the motions, which actually is better than nothing, it’s just not very good. Also, within a typical organization, there will be some people just going through the motions and some who are really devoted to the cause. Plus, there will be lots of people who aren’t that involved or interested but who think it’s possibly or probably a good idea to try.
I’m suggesting some really care, but NO WAY am I claiming that most do. I really don’t know what the statistics are. It’d be a hard thing to measure, because somebody just going through the motion is hardly likely to own up to that!
Also, about the DNA testing, it leaves a lot to be desired but it certainly does some stuff that’s real (especially finding relatives we can later confirm through classical research). It has great potential to help us understand ourselves some day. The fact that its accuracy in figuring out ancestral composition has been oversold just makes it a typical product - and even this ought to improve rapidly as they build their data base. At least they don’t suggest somebody pretty will shower you with devotion and physical affection if you buy the product.
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### Author:  [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-dna-based-diversity-benefits/717263/12 "2015-04-12T15:42:56Z")
There was an [article about an interesting case in People magazine](http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20088031,00.html) in 1984:
> [@](#):
>
> Whether He’s Black or White, the Voters Want Stebbins to Stay
>
> His ancestors were white. His parents are white. His brother and four sisters are white. Yet against the weight of all this whiteness, and his own pale blue eyes and light complexion, Mark Stebbins insists he’s black. His ethnic identity became a vexing public dispute last fall when Stebbins, 41, ran for political office. Campaigning as a black in a heavily black and Hispanic district of Stockton, Calif., Stebbins won a seat on the city council.
>
> The defeated incumbent is indisputably black, and indignant. “Stebbins is a white guy with a perm,” scoffs Ralph Lee White, also 41. He accuses his rival of “defrauding” District 9’s impoverished voters by pretending to share their minority heritage—a reverse case of trying to “pass.” The voters have just delivered their verdict: Stebbins is the man for them. Last month a recall vote engineered by the vociferous White ended in a resounding victory for Stebbins.
If you consider yourself black but you don’t look like it, a DNA test might be in order.