# Are there any electric car designs that use a generator engine to charge the battery? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213 "2022-01-04T18:59:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/21 "2022-01-04T21:00:04Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > Technically the Chevrolet Volt isn’t a pure series hybrid because there is a mechanical link to the wheels that can kick in at higher speeds. Yep. I remember the outrage among the automotive press when the Volt wasn’t a series hybrid as promised. The problem GM faced is the same reason range extenders like **SenorBeef** described in the OP don’t really exist. The scenario where you’d want a range extender is one where you’re on a long trip, cruising long distances on the highway. And if you’re going to have an engine running at a constant speed while you’re driving 75mph, it’s much more efficient to just hook that engine up to the drive wheels rather than suffer losses via energy conversion. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/22 "2022-01-04T21:00:43Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > What it shows to me is that maybe PHEVs were starting to take off, and then in 2018 the Tesla Model 3 came along and ate their sales. Traditional hybrids are still going strong. Makes sense to me. The PHEV was a good approach when EVs weren’t quite ready. I loved my Volt and later my Prius Prime. For most driving, we didn’t use any gas. However, neither compare to the simplicity and efficiency of our full EVs. If you want a gas option to avoid EV issues, frankly a pure Hybrid is probably the logical solution. For those of us who can switch to EV, the PHEV is completely unnecessary complication. (I had range anxiety after 40 miles in my Volt, even if it wasn’t rational. With full EV, I have never once worried about my range.) ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doubticus2/32/9886_2.png) [@Doubticus2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus2)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/23 "2022-01-04T21:02:27Z")
No problem, I just wanted to make clear to other readers that “isn’t a pure series hybrid” doesn’t mean it uses equal parts gas to electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/24 "2022-01-04T22:04:22Z")
The Ford F-150 Lightning is an interesting example: It’s a pure EV with a long range, but you can also get a gas generator that fits in the bed like a snap-on toolbox. You can remove it and save weight and bed space when not needed, but if you are hauling a trailer or powering a big job site, you can carry the generator and charge the truck or run the job site with it. No details yet on price and capacity, but Ford has a similar generator for the PHEV F-150, and it can produce 7.2 kW. That much power would allow you to charge the truck while driving. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/25 "2022-01-04T22:08:58Z")
I remember first reading about the hybrid concept in a Popular Mechanics magazine many decades ago (late 70s?). The description was of a series hybrid - an electric car that carried a gas-powered generator for recharging on the fly. When the first Honda Insight came out I was shocked to find out that it was what is now called a parallel hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/26 "2022-01-04T22:13:33Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > In order to qualify as an EV in the US, the REx could only come on when the battery was very depleted, limiting the usefulness of the REx. Aha, that sounds like the limiting factor right there in widespread adoption. I was thinking the generator would be manually controllable - if you were making your normal 15 mile work commute, keep it off and go all electric, but if you were making a long trip you could flip the generator on from the start. And even if it couldn’t supply enough energy to keep you at highway speeds, if it could supply some significant fraction then it could potentially dramatically extend your range. But if regulations end up limiting it to only kicking on after the battery is depleted, that eliminates a lot of usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/27 "2022-01-04T22:49:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No details yet on price and capacity, but Ford has a similar generator for the PHEV F-150, and it can produce 7.2 kW. That much power would allow you to charge the truck while driving. 7.2 kW is equivalent to 9.7 HP (if I got my units right). This is certainly not enough to move an F-150 in real-time… especially if it’s carrying a 100 kg generator ! I’m sure it could be used to top up the battery (at rest or possibly in motion), but then range would be limited by… the gasoline tank of the generator. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/28 "2022-01-05T01:00:25Z")
I believe the new Toyota RAV 4 Hybrid does what the OP asks, It moves on motor power alone and the engine just recharged when engaged. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/29 "2022-01-05T01:27:32Z")
I didn’t think too much about it, other than that the F-150 has approx a 150 kWh battery, which gives it a range of over 300 miles. So that’s 50 kWh per 100 miles. If you are driving 60 mph, you are using about 30 kW per hour. So yeah, the extender won’t increase the charge on your battery while cruising on the highway, but would extend your range by about 25%. But in the city, in stop and go traffic, the generator could build battery charge. I suspect the most popular use of that generator would be for shore power for an RV rig. If you are parked somewhere for an extended stay ( a remote job site, for example), you could run the generator during the day to not just power your tools but charge the truck battery. Then at night you could run all the appliances, heat or AC you needed right off the truck battery. 155 kWh would run a trailer’s power for a week or more. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/30 "2022-01-05T08:49:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > you are using about 30 kW per hour Just 30 kW. Or 30 kWh per hour, if you really want to be that person 🙂 . Also, best I can tell, the long range F-150 has a ~131 kWh battery. Which would put it at 26 kW at 60 mph. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/31 "2022-01-05T14:37:25Z")
I recently bought a '21 F150 Powerboost. The battery is rated at 35 KWH. It can drive the truck without the gas engine running. On a 25 mile long local trip, with stop and go conditions, it might say I’ve gone 5-7 miles on electric power. The built in inverter generator is rated at 7.2 KW. I’ve used it to power a welder as well as an air compressor. There’s a review on you tube where a fellow used it to power his camper for a few days and used around 6 gal of gas. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/32 "2022-01-05T14:50:39Z")
AIUI, the latest generation of buses in London are of the type the OP has in mind. [https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/67910/ultra-low-emission-hybrid-buses-go-ahead-london/](https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/67910/ultra-low-emission-hybrid-buses-go-ahead-london/) But for private cars the focus seems to be on extending and intensifying the supply of charging points : then again, we’re a much smaller country and car journeys are much shorter on the whole. ---
**Author:** ![LivingGhost371](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@LivingGhost371](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LivingGhost371)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/33 "2022-01-05T14:58:06Z")
Yeah, no one wants a sedan now, the secure trunk storage of a sedan doesn’t offset the other advantages of different from factors. The other problem is that despite how good the concept was, it just looked like any random ICE car, something the manufacturer actually lampshaded in commercials. I think a big factor in the success of the Toyota Pious (whoops, Prius) was the unique looking design; it screamed “Look at how righteous I am!!! I’m driving a hybrid !!!” I wonder the environmental impact of a fleet of plug-in hybrids with small batteries that would run on electric in town and gas out of town, vs putting in huge honking batteries in every car for the one or two times a month you take a road trip. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/34 "2022-01-05T15:00:30Z")
The other reason I read that Chevy stopped selling the Volt was that it took the dealers too much time to explain the concept of a plug-in hybrid vehicle to the customers. But it seemed to me that after spending all that time and money developing the technology, if the big problem was that it was a sedan, why not adapt the technology in an SUV or pickup truck? ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/35 "2022-01-05T15:50:16Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#): > > Yeah, no one wants a sedan now, Don’t make such sweeping generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![LivingGhost371](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@LivingGhost371](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LivingGhost371)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/36 "2022-01-05T21:22:41Z")
I guess Ford doesn’t know what they’re doing when they discontinued basically all their sedans? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/37 "2022-01-05T21:40:38Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > The battery is rated at 35 KWH. It can drive the truck without the gas engine running. On a 25 mile long local trip, with stop and go conditions, it might say I’ve gone 5-7 miles on electric power. The electric motor is 35 kW, but the battery [is only 1.5 kWh](https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/trucks/f150/2020/Mediakit/F_150_PowerBoost_Graphic_1_1.pdf). 5 miles on that seems pretty optimistic for a truck, but maybe at low speeds it could be done. I’d guess the controller is using the motor for, say 0-15 mph, which isn’t going to be all the time but in stop-and-go traffic might be significant. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/38 "2022-01-05T21:44:09Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#): > > I guess Ford doesn’t know what they’re doing when they discontinued basically all their sedans? On the other hand, Toyota outsold GM in the US this year, and their top seller was the Camry. Maybe Ford just thinks the competition is too tough. Sedans may not be the largest market these days but there’s still plenty of demand. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/39 "2022-01-05T21:51:07Z")
My understanding is that the RAV4 is the top-selling Toyota, followed by the Tacoma pickup and then the Corolla. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213/40 "2022-01-05T21:54:52Z")
Maybe people just don’t want Ford sedans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-electric-car-designs-that-use-a-generator-engine-to-charge-the-battery/957213.md?page=3)