# Are there any good candidates for the 18th Century's last survivor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184 "2011-09-22T09:39:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/1 "2011-09-22T09:39:24Z")
The 19th Century’s last survivors are almost gone now, in 2011; the world’s oldest living person, [Bessie Cooper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Besse_Cooper), was born in August 26, 1896. In less than a decade, it’s entirely possible we’ll get down to a single lone survivor from that century. Do we know enough about the oldest people of the 19th Century to guess at who the last survivor of the 18th Century was? I realize record-keeping only got going in a lot of the world in the latter half of the 20th Century, and a lot of records got forged due to a Tsar’s conscription drive here and a fraudulent enlistment there, but are there any candidates who have at least reasonable documentation backing them up? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/2 "2011-09-22T10:10:08Z")
This is probably a good place to start: [List of last living war veterans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_last_living_war_veterans) Some of those Napoleonic Wars vets lasted quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/3 "2011-09-22T12:56:36Z")
I’ll start the bidding off with [Margaret Ann Neve](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Ann_Neve) 1792 - 1903 ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/4 "2011-09-22T16:44:38Z")
Check out the photo of Margaret Ann Neve on the web page linked in **Aspidistra’s** post. Judging from the shape of that, umm… _thing_… in her hand, maybe her trick to long life was the same as the one that Ernest Borgnine claims keeps him young. Yes, I’m going to roast in hell. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/5 "2011-09-22T16:49:34Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I’ll start the bidding off with [Margaret Ann Neve](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Ann_Neve) 1792 - 1903 Um, ok, so everyone else that lived in the 19th century died 108 years ago? **stuyguy** , pointing out the obvious won’t get you into Hell. You’ll have to try harder or you’ll end up in the other place where the dull people go. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/6 "2011-09-22T16:59:17Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > This is probably a good place to start: [List of last living war veterans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_last_living_war_veterans) > > Some of those Napoleonic Wars vets lasted quite a while. From that list, Hiram Crook (April 29, 1800 – May 13, 1905) seems like a good candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/7 "2011-09-22T17:02:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Um, ok, so everyone else that lived in the 19th century died 108 years ago? I don’t understand your point here. The OP is asking about the last survivor among people born in the EIGHTEENTH century, not the NINETEENTH. Certainly somebody like Neve, who was born in 1792 and lived to be over 110 years old, would be a strong contender for that title. In fact, the linked Wiki article says: > [@](#): > > Neve was the only supercentenarian born in the 18th century who lived to the 20th century, and she was the first supercentenarian to live in three different centuries. The first part of that sentence seems to imply that **nobody** else besides Neve who was born in the 18th century made it into the 20th century (because you’d have to be a supercentenarian in order to achieve that). Therefore, if this Wikipedia statement is accurate, Neve is indeed the “18th century’s last survivor” that the OP is looking for. ETA: As per **Dewey** ’s post, if we count 1800 as part of the 18th century (which I agree is mathematically more correct but isn’t a universally agreed-upon convention), then Hiram Crook beats out Neve for the title. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/8 "2011-09-22T17:09:22Z")
**Dewey Finn,** the name is Hiram \*Cronk \*(not Crook). FYI, his funeral procession, held in NYC, was filmed! You can view/download the silent b&w footage from the Library of Congress website. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/9 "2011-09-22T17:10:21Z")
I have to be a bit skeptical about this. You mean that no one born on December 31, 1800 made it to 1904? Or that a similar person in born in 1799 didn’t make it to 1904? You don’t have to be 108 to get the title. Seems that at least one other person born near the last year of the century should have made it to 1904. To have someone who was born 8 years before the century was over would appear to be bucking the odds. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/10 "2011-09-22T17:12:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The first part of that sentence seems to imply that **nobody** else besides Neve who was born in the 18th century made it into the 20th century (because you’d have to be a supercentenarian in order to achieve that). In that Wikipedia article, supercentarian simply means someone older than 110. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/11 "2011-09-22T17:13:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The first part of that sentence seems to imply that **nobody** else besides Neve who was born in the 18th century made it into the 20th century (because you’d have to be a supercentenarian in order to achieve that). A supercentenarian is someone aged 110 years or older. There could have been plenty of plain old centenarians who lived from the very late 1790’s to the early 1900’s but died before they reached 110. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/12 "2011-09-22T17:18:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t understand your point here. The OP is asking about the last survivor among people born in the EIGHTEENTH century, not the NINETEENTH. Well I guess if you insist on reading the OP correctly you would be right.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/13 "2011-09-22T17:22:51Z")
Thanks **Shmendrik** , you’re right: I confused the supercentenarian barrier of 110 years with the centenarian barrier of 100 years. You’d have to be at least a centenarian to make it from seventeen-ninety-something to nineteen-oh-something, but you wouldn’t have to be a supercentenarian. However, so far I haven’t seen evidence of anybody but Neve and (possibly) Crank (if you count 1800 as part of the eighteenth century) who has done so. > [@Si Amigo](#): > > I have to be a bit skeptical about this. You mean that no one born on December 31, 1800 made it to 1904? Or that a similar person in born in 1799 didn’t make it to 1904? You don’t have to be 108 to get the title. Seems that at least one other person born near the last year of the century should have made it to 1904. To have someone who was born 8 years before the century was over would appear to be bucking the odds. It’s certainly possible that there was an undocumented centenarian somewhere who fulfilled those conditions; lots of people didn’t have accurate birth records, after all. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/14 "2011-09-22T19:42:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > … However, so far I haven’t seen evidence of anybody but Neve and (possibly) **Crank** (if you count 1800 as part of the eighteenth century) who has done so. … It’s CRONK! Not Crank. Not Crook. _Cronk!_ Get your dope straight, people. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/15 "2011-09-22T22:44:03Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I’ll start the bidding off with [Margaret Ann Neve](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Ann_Neve) 1792 - 1903 Thank you. This is very interesting. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > From that list, Hiram Crook (April 29, 1800 – May 13, 1905) seems like a good candidate. **stuyguy** is going to make sure _you_ never make it to the 22nd Century. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/16 "2011-09-23T03:27:32Z")
Another interesting fact about Hiram Cronke is that it is impossible to type his surname correctly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/17 "2011-09-23T09:59:18Z")
Found a better one 🙂 [Augusta Hejnek 1799 - 1908](http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17834473) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/18 "2011-09-23T11:10:39Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Found a better one 🙂 > [Augusta Hejnek 1799 - 1908](http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17834473) Very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/19 "2011-09-23T12:57:47Z")
My favourite bit of that page was the family message over the right hand side: "Merry Christmas, we love you and miss you. - Your Family Added: Dec. 18, 2007" They’d been missing that lady a LONG time! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184/20 "2011-09-23T13:03:36Z")
Theoretically, all you would have to do is live 100 years and one second. Born on December 31, 1800 at 11:59:59pm and die on January 1, 1901 at 12:00midnight. I think the problem is what the OP alluded to. The birth records in the late 18th century were non-existent in most parts of the world. Certainly none of the United States had central registries. The only way to “verify” a birth date would be from family bibles and (then) word of mouth. A when you do that, you have the problem of some shyster taking the name of his stillborn older brother and using it to say he was 100+ years old. There were no drivers licenses, social security numbers, or any other forms of ID to even verify that a person was who he claimed to be. Even records for the oldest living person TODAY are frustrated by verification problems in the records, even in first world countries. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-good-candidates-for-the-18th-centurys-last-survivor/597184.md?page=2)