Are there any infinities in the universe? Could there be?

This appears to be a contradiction on your part. The second sentence is all I was trying to explain… I can never observe a star moving out of the observable universe.

This also appears to be a contradiction. If it has been slowly redshifting over the billions of years that it has been receding (towards the horizon), then it does slowly redshift as it nears the horizon.

A continuous wave cannot disappear completely due to redshifting.
f = c / λ
c is the constant speed (of light), λ is wavelength, f is frequency. Redshifting causes an increase in wavelength. No matter how much you increase wavelength, the frequency will never drop to zero.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Whether the binary system exists after it physically crosses the event horizon is irrelevant to whether the system is still intact when it “actually leaves the particle’s cosmological event horizon”.

~Max

It’s only a contradiction if you ignore the parts that you cut out.

You will never observe a star that has moved out of the observable universe.

Once again, the part that you cut out explains what you are missing.

A star that is a billion light years away is slowly accelerating, slowly increasing its redshift. A star that is 2 billion light years away is accelerating away faster, its redshift is increasing faster. A star that is 4 billion light years away is accelerating away even faster than that, and its redshift is increasing even faster. The further it is, the faster it is accelerating away from you.

As it approaches the horizon, the acceleration approaches infinity, as does the redshift. Once it crosses the horizon, it is just gone.

You keep seeming to want to think of this as something accelerating away from you, approaching the speed of light. In that case, what you say holds true. If a rocket with a magic engine maintains a 1 g acceleration, then after about a year, you will see it as the clocks on it slow down more and more, the light from it becomes more and more redshifted, and it asymptotically become more redshifted and slow. But here’s the key to that, if you measure its acceleration away from you, you will see that it is not maintaining 9.8 m/s/s, but its acceleration itself is slowing as it approaches the speed of light. To someone on the craft, it feels as though they are still doing 1 g, but to the observer that they have left, they will be accelerating less and less as they get further from you and recede faster.

This is not the case with the cosmological horizon. Objects are accelerating towards it, and don’t slow down as they approach it. They keep speeding up, until they cross it, and they cross it because they are now superluminal compared to your frame of reference.

The asymptote here is time, not distance or velocity or acceleration. If an object is going to cross the horizon at t=1, then as t approaches 1, then that is when you see observe object get redshifted away. And if you mathematically observe it as it gets arbitrarily closer and closer to 1, you will never actually see it “disappear”, it will just become more and more redshifted.

But, just as in Zeno’s paradox, the answer here is that time itself does not slow down, time itself does not get arbitrarily closer and closer to 1, it actually goes to 1 and then keeps going. Once you have gone past 1, the object is no longer observable by anything that travels at C or slower. (It is observable by tachyons, the only problem there is that tachyons don’t exist.)

Put it this way, it’s not just moving away from you, you are moving away from it as well. If you are moving away from it at greater than the speed of light, then how is a photon or a gravitational wave going to catch up with you?

And as t approaches 1, λ approaches infinity. Once t has passed 1, there is no longer anything there. You keep forgetting that space itself is expanding here. This is not an object that is undergoing acceleration to take it away from you, it is an object that has more space between it and you than it can cross before more space is made. It can never catch up.

As an imperfect but useful analogy, you can use water. If you have a flow of water that is traveling faster than the speed of sound in water, then if you are upstream, disturbances and waves cannot propagate to you.

No, I didn’t, and you are correct that it is irrelevant, as in neither case does it matter. Once it crosses the cosmological event horizon, it is no longer observable by any form of propagation that travels at the speed of light or slower.

Quoting @colibri, in a different context, “I think it was Einstein who found that the asshole supply of the universe is infinite.”

The actual quote attributed to Einstein is "Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe” (although, like most great quotes, it may be apocryphal.)

Indeed:
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/04/universe-einstein/

There is just one point I should add to this discussion of the Cosmological horizon; as should be well known, a star of galaxy doesn’t immediately disappear from our point when it enters a region of space that is receding from us as the speed of light. Even in this location it is still emitting radiation towards us, and those photons will (quite quickly) travel into parts of space which are not receding from us at the speed of light. This means that we can see them, even though they are moving away from us at the speed of light.

Much further away than the ‘speed-of-light’ horizon is a second horizon, where stars and galaxies are receding much faster than light, and photons from these galaxies will never pass into a region which is travelling slow enough to allow contact with our telescopes.

Just a few points on cosmological expansion, which is a very confusing topic.

Nothing can leave the observable universe. Objects are always entering the observable universe, but nothing can leave. The easiest way to think of this is that the boundary of the observable universe expands outwards with a peculiar speed (speed relative to the CMBR) of c.

Redshift goes to infinity at the boundary of the observable universe. As we look further away we are also looking further back in time, and the time goes to t=0 (big bang) at the boundary of the observable universe. Cosmological redshift = (scale factor now)/(scale factor at the time of the observed event) -1. The scale factor now is just set to 1 for convenience, and the scale factor goes to 0 as t goes to the big bang.

The relationship between recessional velocity and redshift/the boundary of the observable universe is complicated. Recessional speed of has no direct physical meaning and is highly dependent on the cosmology. A recessional speed of c has no special meaning and in general doesn’t delineate a true horizon.

This is an excellent accessible paper on these issues. Not entirely without math, but you can follow a lot of it with just the words and diagrams.

Expanding Confusion: common misconceptions of cosmological horizons and the superluminal expansion of the Universe

An interesting thing about the most distant galaxies that we can see:
When light from those galaxies was first emitted, although the photons were moving through local space at the speed of light (as they always do) in our direction, that space itself was receding from us superluminally, so the net velocity of those photons was then away from us. But in most models of the universe, the Hubble Sphere (the limit of the superluminal recession of space) also recedes; and faster than these photons. So eventually the photons found themselves in space that is no longer receding superluminally, and their net velocity turned toward us. There was a point in time when the photons were “stationary” relative to us, where the recession of space at the speed of light exactly offset the local motion of the photons at the speed of light toward us.

ETA: but in reference to what @Asymptotically_fat said, at the end of his prior comment, there’s nothing “special” in a cosmological sense about that point in time when the photons were stationary relative to us. It was just the time when these particular photons, moving as they always do through local space at c, crossed the boundary of the Hubble Volume where space is receding at exactly c from us.

Okay, but here’s a possible infinity; If we were to send a message, a packet of information, towards a distant galaxy, that packet would pass into intergalactic space and encounter regions of space which are not only expanding, but the expansion of that space is accelerating. I understand that it is the case that (if the acceleration of the expansion of the universe continues) that the message packet we have sent out will never actually arrive, assuming that the target galaxy is sufficiently distant from us.

Maybe the packet of information will arrive after an infinitely long journey, but it will be infinitely redshifted. We are in the curious position of being able to see certain distant galaxies, but never able to communicate with them.

In such a universe, which includes the current favoured cosmological model, there is what is called a cosmoligcal event horizon. This is different form the particle horizon, whcih is the boundary of the observable universe. A light beam sent out from us now approaches a galaxy at the current postion of our cosmological event horizon as t goes to infinity.

To help us understand the causal structure of spacetimes it is often highly useful to define 5 different types of infinity: spacelike infinity, past timelike infinity, future timelike infinity, past null infinity and future null infinity. A spacetime (or more properly its compactifcation) may have all, some or none of these infinities. Our beam of light sent out now arrives at the galaxy on the current cosmological event horizon at future null infinity.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. There’s something in this paragraph that I’m not understanding. What do you mean when you wrote, “as t approaches 1, then that is when you see observe object get redshifted away”?

If an object crosses the horizon when its clock reads t=1, then I won’t be able to receive any information from that object which was emitted when the object’s clock read t >= 1. That much I understand. But that doesn’t mean I won’t be able to make any observations when my clock is at t >= 1. I believe that as my clock’s t approaches infinity, I will observe the other object’s clock approach 1. Until you quantize the wave, at no point will I make an observation and see nothing.

If you were to plot a graph, with y = my_clock_t when I recieve information, and x = other_clock_t when it sends information, it would look something like y = 1/(x + 1). No matter how high x gets, I will always be recieving something.

~Max

I’m not sure if those are physical infinities or consequences of purely abstract equations.

~Max

As always, I fail at math. The plot I’m looking for is y = - 1/(x - 1)

left of the asymptote is the observable universe. As the object crosses the event horizon, it doesn’t “dissapear” from our observable universe. We can still make observations for all of eternity, and any waves being propogated as the object crosses the event horizon will continue to interact with us forever.

~Max