# Are there any Kaiser v. RMS Titanic conspiracies? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 16, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280 "2020-08-16T21:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/1 "2020-08-16T21:01:00Z")
Nat Geo was loaded with documentaries featuring Bob Ballard, James Cameron, and the Titanic today. We’re there any RL conspiracy theories regarding Kaiser Wilhelm and the sinking? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/2 "2020-08-17T00:29:41Z")
I’m not sure the effectiveness of u-boats and torpedoes was appreciated by the general public prior to WWI. Someone more familiar with survivor accounts can probably tell us if the iceberg was still visible from the lifeboats and rescue ships. If that was the case I don’t think a conspiracy theory could get off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/3 "2020-08-17T00:32:53Z")
How about postwar? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/4 "2020-08-17T00:41:22Z")
Just Google “Titanic torpedoed”. There are tons, but I doubt any of them date back more than a few decades. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/5 "2020-08-17T00:50:53Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Someone more familiar with survivor accounts can probably tell us if the iceberg was still visible from the lifeboats and rescue ships. If that was the case I don’t think a conspiracy theory could get off the ground. Both lookouts who spotted the iceberg survived and testified at the inquiries after the sinking. I’m sure other individuals who saw the berg also must have survived. Chunks of ice fell on the upper deck. In any case, a torpedo would have probably only affected one or two of the compartments. It was the fact that the berg damaged five compartments that caused the ship to sink. And why would the Kaiser want to sink the Titanic in 1912? Can the OP elaborate on what about the documentaries that prompted this question? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/6 "2020-08-17T01:01:44Z")
There were so many and they were ever so very dull. Hours of clip shows. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/7 "2020-08-17T01:03:57Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > There were so many and they were ever so very dull. Hours of clip shows You asked the question because the shows were dull? Did they present conspiracy theories? If so, what were they? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/8 "2020-08-17T01:13:27Z")
No conspiracies. Thus this thread. Um, duh? Every happenstance post Great War triggered enough conspiracies, real and literary, to fill the North Atlantic. I wondered if there were some I missed. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/9 "2020-08-17T01:46:15Z")
The logistics make the entire thing preposterous. How could a sub know where the Titanic would be? No radar, remember? They certainly couldn’t match its speed. So they’d have to lie in wait and hope it would come into torpedo range. And why would Germany do it? They weren’t at war, and had no idea they would be; the status quo had been peaceful for 40 years. And the Titanic wasn’t even a naval vessel. Why sink it during peacetime. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/10 "2020-08-17T01:47:44Z")
I was rude with my rep!y. I ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/11 "2020-08-17T02:21:36Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > And why would Germany do it? They weren’t at war, and had no idea they would be; the status quo had been peaceful for 40 years. And the Titanic wasn’t even a naval vessel. Why sink it during peacetime. Hold my beer. J.P. Morgan had brokered an arrangement between the major trans-atlantic shipping lines which divided up the market. This agreement expired in 1912 and shipping lines began competing more heavily against each other. Norddeutscher Lloyd, the leading German shipping line, was losing the business now that it was no longer protected by the agreement. So Kaiser Wilhelm decided to take action to protect a major German corporation. The newly launched Titanic was an obvious target; White Star line had invested heavily in launching the ship and would be greatly harmed by its loss. And sinking it and making it look like an accident would shake public confidence in British shipping in general. Erich Raeder was placed in charge of a secret project to develop a torpedo that would skim along a ship’s hull and simulate iceberg damage. To conceal German involvement, the actual mission was carried out by a submarine from Germany’s ally, Austria-Hungary. The submarine chosen was the U-6, under the command of Georg von Trapp. The mission was a success and the Titanic was sunk. But years later, Raeder realized there was a loose end; von Trapp could reveal everything and change the British policy of appeasing Germany into one of hostility. So von Trapp had to be silenced. Von Trapp understood this and realized the real meaning behind the offer of a command in the German navy after Austria’s forced unification. Once he was somewhere where the Germans controlled his movement, he would be killed and his death would be made to look like an accident. So von Trapp had no choice except to flee to the United States with his children and new wife, Maria. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/12 "2020-08-17T02:30:24Z")
Bravo @Little_Nemo, bravo. I’d also watch _that_ movie. Sounds like more fun than the ‘disneyfied’ version they’ve been feeding us all these years! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/13 "2020-08-17T03:08:08Z")
And at that time, Germany was quite friendly with Britain. The Kaiser was related to the Royal family, he was made a Knight of the Garter, etc. It wasnt until later that the British started a propaganda war ve “The Hun” as Silly Willy was building a navy to match theirs and they couldnt allow that. Idiot Kaiser thought that the British would be honored. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/14 "2020-08-17T04:38:44Z")
Since there doesn’t seem to be any factual basis for the OP’s question, let’s move this to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/15 "2020-08-17T11:42:11Z")
Who said a sub or torpedo needed to be involved? I didn’t, and I consider it preposterous with the technology of the day. There are simpler ways to deliver (truck or horse drawn wagon) a large explosive to the unsecured ship while it was still at dock, giving us means and opportunity. For motive, all was not rosy between cousins Wilhelm and George. Read the opening chapters of The Guns of August. They were at war in just 2.5 years. I hate to say I am a bit offended that my straightforward question in the OP and thread title would be twisted so badly. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/16 "2020-08-17T14:04:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The submarine chosen was the U-6, under the command of Georg von Trapp. Oh, I like this! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/17 "2020-08-17T15:46:37Z")
Funny stuff, but just to be serious a minute, I’ve read a lot about the _Titanic_ over the years, and this is the first time I’ve ever heard _any_ speculation that the Kaiser might’ve been behind her sinking. Sheer wackiness. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/18 "2020-08-17T16:20:00Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I hate to say I am a bit offended that my straightforward question in the OP and thread title would be twisted so badly. You asked if there were any theories about Germany sinking a ship in the middle of the ocean. A submarine attack is the straightforward answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/19 "2020-08-17T16:27:44Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Who said a sub or torpedo needed to be involved? I didn’t, and I consider it preposterous with the technology of the day. You mentioned the Kaiser in the OP. Checking out Google, pretty much any conspiracy theory involving the Kaiser involves U-boats. Since you didn’t suggest any actual conspiracy theory yourself, that was the logical one to respond to regarding the Kaiser. And evidence for a U-boat is flimsy in the extreme. > [@dropzone](#): > > There are simpler ways to deliver (truck or horse drawn wagon) a large explosive to the unsecured ship while it was still at dock, giving us means and opportunity. This is preposterous in the same way that alleging that explosives rather than airplanes took down the WTC is. There is ample contemporary eyewitness testimony that the ship collided with an iceberg. Surreptitiously planting explosives in sufficient quantity, in at least 5 separate compartments, is just as implausible as planting explosives in the WTC. This said, there are a couple of conspiracy theories that allege it was an inside job, either by J.P. Morgan to kill his rivals, Jacob Astor, Isador Straus, and Benjamin Guggenheim, or for insurance fraud, sinking the Titanic’s sister ship Olympia instead. In this case it would have been possible to plant explosives, but these theories are equally bonkers. > [@dropzone](#): > > For motive, all was not rosy between cousins Wilhelm and George. Read the opening chapters of The Guns of August. They were at war in just 2.5 years. That’s not a motive, and “But it could happen!” doesn’t constitute a plausible theory. > [@](#): > > I hate to say I am a bit offended that my straightforward question in the OP and thread title would be twisted so badly. You didn’t ask a simple straightforward factual question in the OP, but suggested a preposterous conspiracy theory, that the Kaiser was involved, and invited comment on it. How long have you been posting here? You should know that even mentioning conspiracy theories on this board is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Ripping apart conspiracy theories is this board’s bread and butter.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280/20 "2020-08-17T16:42:21Z")
My favorite wacky theory is that the Titanic sank because it was transporting [a cursed Egyptian mummy.](https://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/unlucky-mummy-said-have-sunk-titanic-002379) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-kaiser-v-rms-titanic-conspiracies/918280.md?page=2)