# Are there any languages where the colour orange and the fruit are totally different? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907 "2009-10-23T22:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/1 "2009-10-23T22:30:21Z")
The title is pretty self-explanatory, I think. Every language I can think of has either the exact same word or extremely similar words for “orange” the colour and “orange” the fruit. Are there any languages where this isn’t the case? If so, why not? Also, did the word for the fruit originate first, or the colour? Does it matter which language, or is it consistently the same order (ie. all languages had the word for the orange fruit first, then later the colour)? Or did they tend to come into existence at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/2 "2009-10-23T22:42:10Z")
The Master speaks (at least in answer to your second question): [What came first, orange or oranges?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/307/what-came-first-orange-or-oranges) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/3 "2009-10-23T22:52:44Z")
In modern day Japan, they call it orenji-iro (orange color), taken from English. It looks like there was a word, toukoushoku (橙黄色), which appears to be named after the [bitter orange](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange) (橙). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/4 "2009-10-23T23:01:19Z")
What is the Spanish term for the color orange? I know the fruit is _naranja_m but am not aware of whether it also covers the color. (I presume that differences between noun and adjective that are inherent in a language will not void the OP question – much like the differences between salad greens and a green tree may be slightly different words in some languages.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/5 "2009-10-23T23:12:26Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What is the Spanish term for the color orange? I know the fruit is _naranja_m but am not aware of whether it also covers the color. It’s the same: _naranja._ An orange tree is _naranjo._ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/6 "2009-10-23T23:32:20Z")
In the Scandinavian languages, the fruit is called an _appelsin_, meaning Chinese apple. The color is still called orange or variations thereof. Apparently, it’s also a [_sinaasappel_](http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaasappel) to the Dutch, who are of course crazy about all things colored [_oranje_](http://yesweareonmars.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/pic1162661.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/7 "2009-10-23T23:52:52Z")
Just a WAG, but I think the two words might be different in places where nobody had seen an orange until recently. They may have already had a name for the color, and given a different name to the newly-discovered fruit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/8 "2009-10-24T00:03:40Z")
> [@Gotterfunken](#): > > The Master speaks (at least in answer to your second question): [What came first, orange or oranges?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/307/what-came-first-orange-or-oranges) Cecil did that column quite some time ago. 1975 is the dark ages. 🙂 It’s really an interesting study. The current OED earliest cite(in English) for the tree/fruit is _ca_1400. > [@](#): > > a1400 J. MIRFIELD Sinonoma Bartholomei 15 Citrangulum pomum, orenge. a1425 in T. Wright & R. P. Wülcker Anglo-Saxon & Old Eng. Vocab. (1884) I. 647 Masuclum, orange. a1505 L. HARYSON in Paston Lett. & Papers (2004) II. 490 Halfe a hondyrd orrygys. 1538 W. TURNER Libellus de re Herbaria at Macer, Malum medicum an oreche. ?1550 H. LLOYDE tr. John XXI Treasury of Healthe (1585) sig. Sj, The sede of Orenche. 1587 SIR P. SIDNEY & A. GOLDING tr. P. de Mornay Trewnesse Christian Relig. x. 161 The rynde of the Orrendge is hot, and the meate within it is cold. 1598 Epulario sig. Cij, Take the iuice of an Oringe, or else Vergice. . All of these predate what Cecil knew at the time. As to the color, it always comes later. The latest OED says– > [@](#): > > . A bright reddish-yellow colour like that of the skin of a ripe orange; any one of a number of shades occupying the region between red and yellow in the spectrum. Also: a pigment or dye of this colour. > cadmium, chrome, Mars, methyl orange, etc.: see the first element. > > 1557 in Great Brit. Statutes at Large VI. 100 Coloured cloth of any other colour or colours..hereafter mentioned, that is to say, scarlet, red, crimson, morrey, violet, pewke, brown, blue, black, green, yellow, blue, orange, [etc.]. 1591 in R. Pitcairn Criminal Trials Scotl. (1833) I. II. 254 Fyve clewis of sindrie culloures of worsett as blak, reid, orange, yallow and blew. a1598 A. MONTGOMERIE Misc. Poems xxiv. 66, O wareit orange! willed me to weir. 1663 S. BUTLER Hudibras I. i. 18 His tawny Beard..The upper part thereof was Whey, The nether Orange mixt with Gray. ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/9 "2009-10-24T00:06:46Z")
In Russian the words are totally different and unrelated. The descriptor orange comes from the English word, while the fruit is also called _applesin_ like it is in the Scandinavian languages. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/10 "2009-10-24T00:30:45Z")
[QUOTE=OED] pewke [/QUOTE] I’m afraid to ask what that color name comes from … ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/11 "2009-10-24T00:39:29Z")
Russian is апельсин (apel’sín) for the fruit, same word & etymology as above; the color is оранжевый цвет (oránzhevyj tsv[sup]j[/sup]et), where цвет is the word “color” and -ый is an adjectival termination: orangy color. Celtic: Irish has _oráiste_ for the fruit, and _flannbhuí_ for the color, the latter a combination of _flann_, one of the red words\* and _buí_, “yellow.” Scottish Gaelic is the opposite: _òraisd_ is the color, and _or-ubhall_ (lit. “gold-apple”) is the fruit. In both cases the orange-sounding word gets used for both. Welsh has _oren_ for the fruit and _melyngoch_, from _melyn_ “yellow” + _coch_ “red,” for the color. Most people say “lliw oren,” lit. “orange color.” Breton has a nice variety: for the fruit, _aval orañjez_ “orange apple” or just _orañjezenn_ (pl. _orañjez_) or _aouraval_ “gold-apple.” The color is \*melenruz \*“yellow·red” or _liv orañjez_ “orange color.” \*Irish has a variety of words that map onto our red. _Ruadh_, _dearg_, _flann_, etc. _Flann_ is usually used with blood , and _flannbhuí_ is sort of an academic / archaic word: spoken Irish uses _oráiste_ for the color, too. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/12 "2009-10-24T00:53:17Z")
So, if I am following the thread correctly, in English the color name was derived from the name of the fruit. It then appears that several other languages, with quite different names for the fruit, have borrowed the color name from English. Can that be right? Why did these other languages with (I presume) otherwise quite different color vocabularies, have to borrow this word from English? Why did they not evolve their own term, like they did for other colors? Come to that, why does “orange” as a color appear so late in English (1557 according to **Samclem** ’s post)? I guess the fruit might not have been introduced into Europe until relatively late, but surely they must have had other things (flowers, paints dyes) that were that color. It is one of the basic spectral colors (the 7 colors of the rainbow) after all. It is hardly like it is cerise or ecru or taupe or something (or even crimson or turquoise). Also, is it true, as I have heard, the fruit was originally called “a noringe” in English (presumably derived from the Spanish), and that this only later became corrupted to “an orange”? (I have an idea that “noringe” occurs somewhere in Shakespeare.) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/13 "2009-10-24T00:53:28Z")
> [@Peak Banana](#): > > In the Scandinavian languages, the fruit is called an _appelsin_, meaning Chinese apple. The color is still called orange or variations thereof. Maybe in whatever weird Scandinavian languages you speak, but not in the one I do. 🙂 In Icelandic the fruit is _appelsína_, and the colour is _appelsínugulur_ (orange-colour). ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/14 "2009-10-24T00:57:41Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Just a WAG, but I think the two words might be different in places where nobody had seen an orange until recently. They may have already had a name for the color, and given a different name to the newly-discovered fruit. Yep. The Old English name for the colour is simply “yellow-red” (_geolurēad_), and antedates the first reference to the fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/15 "2009-10-24T01:01:07Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > It [orange] is one of the basic spectral colors (the 7 colors of the rainbow) after all. This assumption needs rebuttal. The colors exist independently of language, but the way the spectrum is divided varies enormously from language to language. There’s no natural boundary between one color and the next, it’s always a continuum. Welsh, at least in medieval times, splits our “gray” into their “blue” and their “brown,” for instance; their “blue” also includes most of our “green,” a color sometimes called “grue” by culture-studies folk. Many languages divide blue: Russian синий (sinij) and голубой (goluboj), Italian _blu_ and _azzurro_. I’m sure others will be along to make this point clearer than I can. This image (scroll down to the color wheels) clarifies _glas_, anyway. [http://ets.tlt.psu.edu/learningdesign/webdesign/media/combinemediatext](http://ets.tlt.psu.edu/learningdesign/webdesign/media/combinemediatext) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/16 "2009-10-24T01:01:13Z")
Yes. Hebrew: _Tapuz_ (Fruit) and _Katom_ (Color) ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/17 "2009-10-24T01:32:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > This assumption needs rebuttal. The colors exist independently of language, but the way the spectrum is divided varies enormously from language to language. There’s no natural boundary between one color and the next, it’s always a continuum. Welsh, at least in medieval times, splits our “gray” into their “blue” and their “brown,” for instance; their “blue” also includes most of our “green,” a color sometimes called “grue” by culture-studies folk. Many languages divide blue: Russian синий (sinij) and голубой (goluboj), Italian _blu_ and _azzurro_. I’m sure others will be along to make this point clearer than I can. > > This image (scroll down to the color wheels) clarifies _glas_, anyway. [http://ets.tlt.psu.edu/learningdesign/webdesign/media/combinemediatext](http://ets.tlt.psu.edu/learningdesign/webdesign/media/combinemediatext) Not to hijack, but when I look at that wheel, I identify patches of red, yellow, green, cyan, blue and magenta. I mean, I can see that there’s orange, and purple on there, but cyan and magenta are in my vocabulary just as much, and look like bigger splotches to me (although some of that may be biased by the display). Just sayin’, color identification is influenced by what you see and talk about regularly. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/18 "2009-10-24T01:48:54Z")
In Adamawa Fulfulde (Northern Cameroon) an orange is simply called a lemon, or “leemu.” The color is called “red-yellow”, which I believe would be “danejuum-ndyam goro.” In any case, oranges in that part of the world are generally green. Oddly, the word for "yellow’ translates as “water kola nut.” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/19 "2009-10-24T02:07:51Z")
Sure. In Bulgarian, the color is _oranzhevo_ (оранжево) and the fruit is _portokal_ (портокал), which comes from…well, I’m not sure what the absolute origin is, but it’s the same in Farsi, which makes me think that it’s originally from Arabic, where it passed to both Farsi and Turkish, and from Turkish to Bulgarian. (Bulgarian has about a zillion Turkish borrow words, both Turkish and Farsi have about a zillion Arabic borrow words.) If it turns out that _portokal_ refers to the color orange in Arabic, well, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907/20 "2009-10-24T02:32:16Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So, if I am following the thread correctly, in English the color name was derived from the name of the fruit. It then appears that several other languages, with quite different names for the fruit, have borrowed the color name from English. Can that be right? Why did these other languages with (I presume) otherwise quite different color vocabularies, have to borrow this word from English? Why did they not evolve their own term, like they did for other colors? Actually, English had borrowed it from other European languages previously. From [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(fruit)) > [@](#): > > The word orange is derived from Sanskrit nāraṅgaḥ “orange tree.”[6] The Sanskrit word is in turn derived from a Dravidian root ‘fragrant’. In Tamil bitter orange is called ‘Narandam’, sweet orange is called ‘nagarugam’ and ‘naari’ means fragrance.[7] In Telugu it is called ‘naringa’. The Sanskrit word was borrowed into European languages through Persian nārang, Armenian nārinj, Arabic nāranj, (Spanish naranja and Portuguese laranja), Late Latin arangia, Italian arancia or arancio, and Old French orenge, in chronological order. The first appearance in English dates from the 14th century. The forms starting with n- are older; this initial n- may have been mistaken as part of the indefinite article, in languages with articles ending with an -n sound (e.g., in French une norenge may have been taken as une orenge). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-languages-where-the-colour-orange-and-the-fruit-are-totally-different/514907.md?page=2)