# Are there any legitimate massage parlors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745 "2006-08-15T01:10:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/21 "2006-08-16T01:44:02Z")
[QUOTE=Cardinal] From that page: “It’s insane,” said Charles J. Key Sr., a retired Baltimore police lieutenant who trains police officers and federal agents across the country. “If you allow officers to go through with the act, they’ve violated the law. You don’t get an exception for participating in a violation of law.” # Similar investigations by police in the Maryland suburbs in recent years have not ended well. In 1995, police in Howard County allowed detectives to receive sexual services from masseuses. But prosecutors later dismissed the charges against nearly all of those arrested rather than expose the investigation’s tactics in open court. Five years ago, Montgomery County police sent informers into massage parlors to have sex with women there. Prosecutors told police to stop the practice, which they did, and dismissed charges against the women. So how are the police supposed to get evidence? Should they reach an agreement, stop at the beginning, or what? It seems they’re a bit trapped. What I really don’t get is the statement that " You don’t get an exception for participating in a violation of law." Police get this all the time. Undercover officers would almost never be able to do their jobs if this weren’t true. Unless Hollywood has been lying to me. But it would never do that. [/QUOTE] In most jurisdictions, they only need to get an agreement to exchange sex for money in order to prosecute. There are some cases that have upheld prostitution convictions after a civilian, acting in cooperation with the police, has had sex with the defendant before she was arrested. _See_, _e.g.,_ _State v. Tookes_, 67 Haw. 608, 699 P.2d 983, 1985 Haw. LEXIS 90 (1985) (collecting cases). One of the cases cited in \*Tookes \* notes, “that the due process “defense” involved a balancing of policy considerations in favor of crime detection and punishment against the policy of fair treatment. Stating that practicality required in some cases that the police participate in unlawful practices[.]” _State v. Putnam_, 31 Wash. App. 156, 639 P.2d 858 (1982) (citing _State v. Emerson_, 10 Wash. App. 235, 517 P.2d 245 (1973)). In short, the cops can sometimes break laws to gather evidence. Using that evidence can prove embarrassing. The cases in the Maryland suburbs, discussed in the second quoted paragraph were dismissed for that reason–not for lack of evidence or entrapment or due process violations. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/22 "2006-08-16T02:33:21Z")
Phoebe Buffay would take umbrage at the mere question! ---
**Author:** ![Stentor\_2.5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stentor\_2.5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stentor_2.5)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/23 "2006-08-16T11:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] In most jurisdictions, they only need to get an agreement to exchange sex for money in order to prosecute. There are some cases that have upheld prostitution convictions after a civilian, acting in cooperation with the police, has had sex with the defendant before she was arrested. _See_, _e.g.,_ _State v. Tookes_, 67 Haw. 608, 699 P.2d 983, 1985 Haw. LEXIS 90 (1985) (collecting cases). One of the cases cited in \*Tookes \* notes, “that the due process “defense” involved a balancing of policy considerations in favor of crime detection and punishment against the policy of fair treatment. Stating that practicality required in some cases that the police participate in unlawful practices[.]” _State v. Putnam_, 31 Wash. App. 156, 639 P.2d 858 (1982) (citing _State v. Emerson_, 10 Wash. App. 235, 517 P.2d 245 (1973)). In short, the cops can sometimes break laws to gather evidence. Using that evidence can prove embarrassing. The cases in the Maryland suburbs, discussed in the second quoted paragraph were dismissed for that reason–not for lack of evidence or entrapment or due process violations. [/QUOTE] Does the fact that such stings usually target female prostitutes, while ignoring males and transsexuals, violate the egual protection clause? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/24 "2006-08-16T12:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=Stentor 2.5] Does the fact that such stings usually target female prostitutes, while ignoring males and transsexuals, violate the egual protection clause? [/QUOTE] Don’t have time for a lot of analysis right now, but I’d say no. First, it’s not clear that such stings “target” female prostitutes. Female prosititutes tend to be the ones working in massage establishments, I think. Can the police target massage parlors, even though they tend to be mostly staffed by females? Probably. Even if one could show some kind of disparate impact, the prevailing tests seem to require intent to discriminate. \*See, e.g., \* [http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/blj/vol19/sapir.pdf](http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/blj/vol19/sapir.pdf) Even if disparate impact were a valid theory in this context, the state could probably come up with a satisfactory explanation to satisfy the intermediate level of scrutiny applied to sex discrimination claims. In any event, the usual remedy for disciminatory enforcement is not a walk for the person complaining. \*E.g., \* [United States v. Armstrong et al., 517 U.S. 456 687 (1996).](http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-157.ZO.html#FN2) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/25 "2006-08-16T13:17:50Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Many Chiropractic offices also offer Massage. They are legit. [/QUOTE] Not always. Apparently prostitution is also happening there. I have a personal anecdote (involves my wife’s employer, an attorney, medical place and a private investigator), but also this: from the [Chiropractic Digest](http://www.chirobase.org/18CND/03/03-02.html) (third blurb down) and from [the US government](http://usinfo.state.gov/eap/Archive_Index/Asian_Criminal_Enterprises_and_Prostitution.html): > [@](#): > > Front Businesses > > In order to conceal activities from law enforcement, a number of Asian criminal enterprises have established supposedly legitimate business “fronts” as a means of operating their brothels. These houses of prostitution disguise themselves as massage parlors, chiropractic doctor’s offices, modeling studios, accu-pressure clinics, skin care clinics and physical therapy offices. > \*\* > One of the more common fronts in southern California is the chiropractic office. Chiropractic doctors are approached by the Asian criminal syndicate and are offered $200-$1000 a month for use of their name. The syndicate then opens the chiropractic office in another city using the doctor’s name. Among services offered by chiropractors is massage using massage therapists. Because the “therapist” is operating under the doctor’s license, she is often not required to obtain massage permits from the local cities. Nor is the location required to obtain a conditional use permit as a massage parlor.\*\* > > Once the location is established, they advertise heavily for “massage.” Customers arriving for massage never see the chiropractor (who rarely if ever visits the location). They pay $50 to $100 for a “massage,” and once in the massage room are offered sex acts for additional “tips.” This type of operation is very favored by Korean organized crime groups using Korean females. > > Brothels disguised as massage parlors are used by all of the Asian organized crime syndicates. (“Accu-pressure” is just another name for massage.) Customers going in pay for a simple massage from the prostitutes. They are usually told something like 'fifty dollars for one half hour of massage." Once inside the room with the “masseuse,” the customers gets a very cursory five minute rub and is then solicited for sex in return for “tips.” If the customer declines the sex act, the massage is over and there is no recourse for receiving less than thirty minutes of massage. If the police raid the location, the explanation given by the organizers is that they only charge for massage and what the girls do on their own inside the rooms is done without the knowledge or permission of the business. > > A recent trend noticed in these type Asian brothels in California is prostitutes not verbally soliciting a sex act. They simply perform the act and then collect money afterwards. The belief is that American police officers cannot engage in a sex act in their attempt to make a case for prostitution. This method of prostitution has been very effective in identifying undercover police operatives. As most of the brothels have gang enforcers, the money for the sex act is almost always collected without problem after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/26 "2006-09-25T05:53:58Z")
[QUOTE=padabe] If you look them up in the phonebook and their ad says Certified Massage Therapist, they are probably legit. I’d also take a look at their business hours - if they’re open until 2 AM, not legit. [/QUOTE] Just something to consider, from everything I have ever heard, and seen in my business. Phone book companies don’t double check ANYTHING. I could slap certifications all over my ad and unless the certifying agency/company goes looking to bitch, it will fly. Why yes I am a Microsoft Gold Solution Provider, do you think we could get away with charging $150/hour if we were not 😉😉 . ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/27 "2006-09-25T06:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=Stentor 2.5] Does the fact that such stings usually target female prostitutes, while ignoring males and transsexuals, violate the egual protection clause? [/QUOTE] Well, for what it’s worth I did see an episode of _Cops_ where they arrested a male prostitute for soliciting a (male) officer. Turned out he was HIV+ too. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/28 "2006-09-25T06:32:14Z")
I guess it’s probably just a Wild West thing, but out here “escorts” put totally blatant ads in the paper. [http://naughtynw.com/portland/f\_escorts.html](http://naughtynw.com/portland/f_escorts.html) ---
**Author:** ![padabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@padabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/padabe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/29 "2006-09-25T13:44:47Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Just something to consider, from everything I have ever heard, and seen in my business. Phone book companies don’t double check ANYTHING. I could slap certifications all over my ad and unless the certifying agency/company goes looking to bitch, it will fly. Why yes I am a Microsoft Gold Solution Provider, do you think we could get away with charging $150/hour if we were not 😉😉 . [/QUOTE] True, but there are two business-types operating under the “massage” category in the phone book. One provides sexual favors, the other does not. Neither one really wants the other one’s clientele. As a result, the legitimate ones claim to be certified, the illegitmate ones do not. At least that’s how it works in my area (or so I’m told 😉 )- YMMV and all that. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745/30 "2006-09-25T15:05:00Z")
The answer to this question is heavily dependent on region. In some areas the cops bust the place as soon as they find them, in some areas the cops don’t give a crap unless there is other sorts of crime going on at the place like drug dealing or extortion, in some places the cops are paid off (money or free use of the place) to leave them alone and so on. We have both kinds here in my city. A couple of non-legit places have been around for many years and they do have valid licenese to operate. Second hand anecdote: A friend of mine had been going to one place for a few years. One day (the idiot) got the urge but didn’t have any cash available so he used a credit card. A few months later he go a visit from a man in a suit. They were trying to scare him into testifying about what happened there. He denied, denied, denied and they let him go. He was single so they couldn’t really force his hand. He was visited by the INS branch of the new (at the time) Dept of Homeland Security. Apparently some of these gals had overstayed their visa and if it could be proven that they were here for crime it would make it easier to boot them or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-legitimate-massage-parlors/368745.md?page=1)