# Are there any more name prefixes than O', Mc, or Van? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755 "2003-05-12T18:30:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![don\_willard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@don\_willard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_willard)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/1 "2003-05-12T18:30:33Z")
I can think of only a few things that come before a last name: O’, Mac, Mc, Van, Von, Van Der, Von Der, Van Den, Von Den, Vander, Vonder, Vanden, Vonden, Lo (as in the composer Lo Presti), and Gel (as in the scientist Gel Mann). 1) Are there any more and what are they and what do they mean? 2) What do the ones I can think of mean?, listed above? 3) When the vans are spelled vander, vonder, vanden, or vonden, are these particles or prefixes always attached to the name, as in Vanderleck or is it possible to have something like Vander Leck? 4) Is the Gell in Gell’Mann spelled like I just spelled it? I’ve seen this Gell before, and I’m not sure it belongs on this list of name prenomens or if it is something only in Semitic languages where you put apostrophes after a lot of things for some unknown reason. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/2 "2003-05-12T18:34:05Z")
Right off the top of my head: Osama **bin** Laden Oscar **de la** Hoya ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Frank\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_2)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/3 "2003-05-12T18:34:25Z")
I’ve seen D in last names before, such as D’Angelo & D’Angelido. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/4 "2003-05-12T18:38:13Z")
The O’ is from a Irish Gaelic word literally meaning “grandson”, and generally has come to mean “descended from.” “Mac” means “son of”. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/5 "2003-05-12T18:43:35Z")
Actually, the O (and it is O and **NOT** O’, thus, “O Brien” is correct but “O’Brien” is a vile Britishism introduced during the tyranny of the English throne over Ireland that should be eradicated from all usage.) is from Ui, which means “descendent more distant than a son”. There is a female equivalent of “mac”, and that is “nic”. Thus, Eoin’s son would be “Seamus MacEoin” but his daughter would be “Brigid NicEoin”. As for the original question. Welsh has Fitz/Fits/Fiss/Fyss, which often was used to designate illegitimate descent, although it did not necessarily mean that. Now Vander and Vonder are actually just Van Der and Von Der run togehter. ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/6 "2003-05-12T19:04:00Z")
Di (as is DiRestofname) and De (DeRestofname) ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/7 "2003-05-12T19:07:24Z")
Oh! and Del (DelRestofname). That would be as in, not as is. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/8 "2003-05-12T19:15:28Z")
would _al_ be one? As in Hafez al Assad? ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/9 "2003-05-12T19:22:13Z")
How about “ter” and “ten”? (Dutch? Can’t think of examples, but I know I’ve seen them.) ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/10 "2003-05-12T19:25:07Z")
Corrie Ten Boom (Holocaust survivor) ter Horst ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/11 "2003-05-12T19:45:02Z")
“bar” has an illustrious example [as explained by the Master.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_035a.html) ---
**Author:** ![stypticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@stypticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stypticus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/12 "2003-05-12T20:01:29Z")
Pepe **Le** Pew. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/13 "2003-05-12T20:02:39Z")
Ap = “son of” in Welsh names. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/14 "2003-05-12T20:29:31Z")
_Van_ is Dutch and _von_ is German for “of” or “from.” _Den_ and _Der_ and some other variants mean “the.” The differences are due to the different grammatical constructions that are still used in Germanic languages that English has lost. So some of the articles will be masculine or feminine and some will indicate a genitive or other case. When the separate words have been pushed together (_e.g._ _Vander_), it does not really change the meaning. _De_ means “of” in several Romance languages, although it also may be spelled _di_ (or abbreviated to _d’_) in Italian. On the other hand, _de_ also means “the” in Dutch, so you have to look at the word that follows it to see whether it means “the” or “of.” (And then pray that the family was not originally from Belgium where someone might have put a Flemish (Dutch) article in front of a French word or a Walloon (French) article in front of a Dutch word to create the name. (That is rare, but it has happened.) _Ter_ and _ten_, in Dutch, are general purpose prepositions that may mean “at,” “in,” “through,” “for (the purpose of),” etc. The Semitic _ben_ prefix (familiar to most people in the States from Jewish/Hebrew/Aramaic names–along with _bar_ noted above) can be found both in the _bin_, mentioned above, and in its variant _ibn_. And, while the OP addressed prefixed words, let us not forget suffixes. The Northern Slavic _-ski_, _-sky_, _-cki_ (all originally pronounced something like /tski/ although the pronunciations have been frequently mangled in the States), indicate descent from someone. _-vitz_ and _-wicz_ and similar ending from the same region have a similar meaning, but I do not know the exact translation. I am not sure of the meaning of the _-ov_ or _-off_ suffix in Russian. The Scandinavian _-son_ and _-sen_ (and now rare _-dottir_) all indicated that one was the child of the name that preceded. (Before the name “normalization” undertaken in Scandinavia in the 19th and 20th centuries, they did not carry “family” names as such, but used a confusing (to the outsider) collection of names indicating that a person was the son (or daughter) of a particular person, matched to a name or phrase that indicated the village or large farm where one lived or worked.) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/15 "2003-05-12T20:57:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > **Welsh has Fitz/Fits/Fiss/Fyss** I don’t know about Fits/Fiss/Fyss but Fitz is Anglo-Norman, not Welsh. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/16 "2003-05-12T22:29:37Z")
_Von_ is quite rare, because that prefix usually, but not always, is a mark of nobility, the ‘von’ having originally referred to the place or region owned by the family. But rarer still is _vom_, which is a contraction of _von dem_. Vom Rath was the name of a German diplomat stationed in Paris, in the late 1930’s. He was assasinated there by a Jewish dissident in 1938, and this is thought to have brought on the pogrom of 1938. Though obviously, the Nazis were probably going to do it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/17 "2003-05-12T22:31:49Z")
"The Scandinavian -son and -sen (and now **rare -dottir** ) " [Not rare in Iceland.](http://www.icetourist.is/displayer.asp?cat_id=21) And it’s “sson” there, too, not “son”. Is that from “Eric’s-son”? -sen is usually Danish, though not always. -son is more often Swedish or Norwegian. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/18 "2003-05-12T23:00:26Z")
Yes, “al” is one, also bin/ben/ibn (“son of”), and “abu” Then Cornish names have Tre-, Pol-, Pen-. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/19 "2003-05-12T23:20:49Z")
Keep in mind that “abu” is “father of” in arabic, which makes it a bit different. And it is often used as an “assumed name” by the politically inclined, rather than simply “Father of (my son) so-and-so”. IIRC, Abu Nidal = Father of the Struggle, or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Nocuous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e79b87/32.png) [@Nocuous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocuous)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755/20 "2003-05-13T00:46:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*"The Scandinavian -son and -sen (and now **rare -dottir** ) " > > [Not rare in Iceland.](http://www.icetourist.is/displayer.asp?cat_id=21) And it’s “sson” there, too, not “son”. Is that from “Eric’s-son”? > > -sen is usually Danish, though not always. -son is more often Swedish or Norwegian. \*\* -son is not that usual in Norway, while -sen is very common. You also have the “av”/“af” that is similar to the german “von”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-more-name-prefixes-than-o-mc-or-van/174755.md?page=2)