# Are there any movements underway to take tax-free status away from churches **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993 "2009-06-25T22:52:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/1 "2009-06-25T22:52:56Z")
…in the United States? If so, I’d love a link. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/2 "2009-06-25T22:57:27Z")
Not by any politician with smarts. Seriously, this seems like a paranoid rumor. Forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/3 "2009-06-25T23:17:14Z")
The background lies in the IRS being a bit more aggressive than in the past about enforcing the rule that religious NFPs may not endorse candidates, though they may endorse policies. (“Vote pro-life” but not “Vote Smith”; “Don’t vote pro-choice” but “Don’t vote for Jones”) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/4 "2009-06-25T23:24:28Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > …in the United States? If so, I’d love a link. Thank you. Sure; lots of far-left parties probably support this. However, none of them are in power in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/5 "2009-06-25T23:35:55Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Sure; lots of far-left parties probably support this. The term ‘far-left’ has been rendered useless by the right’s use of it to describe even the Democrat party. Which parties specifically are you talking about here, the commies? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/6 "2009-06-25T23:42:01Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > …in the United States? If so, I’d love a link. Thank you. Generally? Or specific churches? Inspiration Networks is being denied tax-free status by South Carolina; it’s the broadcasting vehicle for Morris and David Cerullo. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/7 "2009-06-26T00:32:19Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > The term ‘far-left’ has been rendered useless by the right’s use of it to describe even the Democrat party. _Democratic Party_, please. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/8 "2009-06-26T00:35:57Z")
If they take it away, won’t they just get the tax-free status of non-profit organizations? It’s almost as good. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/9 "2009-06-26T00:47:39Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The background lies in the IRS being a bit more aggressive than in the past about enforcing the rule that religious NFPs may not endorse candidates, though they may endorse policies. (“Vote pro-life” but not “Vote Smith”; “Don’t vote pro-choice” but “Don’t vote for Jones”) Is this why the Mormon Church hasn’t had its tax-exempt status questioned for its support of and push of Proposition 8? ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/10 "2009-06-26T01:05:33Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Generally? Or specific churches? > > Inspiration Networks is being denied tax-free status by South Carolina; it’s the broadcasting vehicle for Morris and David Cerullo. I was wondering about churches in general, not specific churches. It seems like I’ve seen a lot of people suggest it and a lot of people say they’d vote for it, but nobody’s moving to do it. I’m just interested in knowing about any such movements, not debating it. Thanks everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/11 "2009-06-26T01:26:53Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > _Democratic Party_, please. Not when it’s being tarred as ‘far-left’. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/12 "2009-06-26T01:37:04Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > The term ‘far-left’ has been rendered useless by the right’s use of it to describe even the Democrat party. Which parties specifically are you talking about here, the commies? You mean the use of it by the Publican Party? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/13 "2009-06-26T03:42:11Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > If they take it away, won’t they just get the tax-free status of non-profit organizations? It’s almost as good. Aren’t churches already treated just like other charitable organizations, tax-wise? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/14 "2009-06-26T11:36:12Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > The term ‘far-left’ has been rendered useless by the right’s use of it to describe even the Democrat party. Which parties specifically are you talking about here, the commies? Any parties which espouse Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism, Stalinism, Kimilsungism, etc. are hostile to religious organizations; wherever they’ve been in power elsewhere in the world they’ve tended to dismantle legal rights enjoyed by churches, and in many cases the churches themselves. Of course, such parties operating in the US have very little political influence, and are unlikely to gain office, even at a local level, at any time in the forseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/15 "2009-06-26T12:46:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Aren’t churches already treated just like other charitable organizations, tax-wise? Yes. They’re all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. > **[501(c) organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)#501.28c.29.283.29)** > > A 501(c) organization is a nonprofit organization in the federal law of the United States according to Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. § 501(c)). Such organizations are exempt from some federal income taxes. Sections 503 through 505 set out the requirements for obtaining such exemptions. Many states refer to Section 501(c) for definitions of organizations exempt from state taxation as well. 501(c) organizations can receive unlimited contributions from individuals, corporations, and unions. > F... ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/16 "2009-06-26T13:13:56Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Yes. They’re all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. > > [501(c) organization - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)#501.28c.29.283.29) Which only answers their status as regards federal income tax. There is a broader common treatment of them as exempt from all taxation, prevalent in most of our legal structures. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/17 "2009-06-26T14:07:02Z")
The problem here is that, ignoring the popularity of the move, it would mean that corruption in religion would go up a few notches because at the end of the year these big churches have a 20 grand tax bill to pay. So expect more mindless proselytization, more black and white views, more angry views, more hate, more pressure to donate, perhaps a return to “get out of hell” waivers with purchase, etc, etc to get more people to join and donate more to pay for the property taxes. I think theyre best off where they are. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/18 "2009-06-26T16:20:52Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Which only answers their status as regards federal income tax. > > There is a broader common treatment of them as exempt from all taxation, prevalent in most of our legal structures. All taxation? Churches pay tax on unrelated business income like other non profits. They are exempted from payroll tax (if they elect it), but most employees then pay the payroll tax themselves; only certain church employees can elect to be fully exempt and that exemption means they will not receive social security benefits. Churches would pay any federal excise taxes that would apply, but generally don’t deal in the kind of products that have excise taxes. State taxes vary, of course. In Washington state and most of Washington’s cities, non-profits are taxed like any other company. Membership dues and contributions are not subject to tax, but any sales of goods, revenue received for services, etc. would be subject to sales tax and business taxes just like a for-profit company. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/19 "2009-06-26T22:14:20Z")
Actually, I was thinking about taxation on the land their churches occupy. Property tax, that’s what I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993/20 "2009-06-27T01:44:13Z")
Since property taxation is local, wouldn’t this require thousands of individual local movements, or at least 50 state movements? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-movements-underway-to-take-tax-free-status-away-from-churches/500993.md?page=2)