# Are there any non-white members of the British aristocracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196 "2009-05-21T16:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/21 "2009-05-22T20:21:39Z")
Let’s not forget that we British are a mongrel breed anyway. The Romans assuredly imported black people to serve here in their legions and as slaves. They equally assuredly left children. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/22 "2009-05-22T21:09:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Just so I’m clear on the terminology, life peer = you title goes away when you die. Hereditory peer = your kids get the title. Right? Right, but if you’re a man your wife get’s to keep being “Lady X” after you die (provided she doesn’t remarry). Also you kids will get to put “The Honourable” in front of their names for the rest of their lives even though none will inheirit your title. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/23 "2009-05-22T21:41:56Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The House of Lords in its judicial capacity was the final court of appeal for England and Wales in all matters generally. > > It had civil jurisdiction for appeals from Scotland, of wihich the most famous example was likely the “snail in the bottle” case, [Donoghue v. Stevenson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donoghue_v_Stevenson). It didn’t have jurisdiction to hear appeals from Scotland in criminal matters, if I remember correctly. > > I think it had full jurisdiction for all appeals from Northern Ireland. > > PM Blair had announced plans to abolish the Lords’ judicial capacity and create a new Supreme Court of the United Kingdom - I don’t know what happened to that - maybe **APB** or **AK84** could give us an update. > > The same law lords also sat on the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, which was the final appellate body for the Empire. It still has some jurisdiction over some parts of the Commonwealth which have not established their own final appellate courts, I believe. The Judicial Committee of the House of Lords could not hear criminal appeals from Scotland because of a clause in the Act of Union 1707 which declared that the Court of Session would for all time be the final criminal court on Scotland. For matters dealing with devolution under the Scotland, Welsh and Northern Irish Acts, the appeals went to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, as on some matters arising out of the Human Rights Act 1998. The new Supreme Court which begins work in Oct of this year will have all of the House of Lords powers as well as those of the Privy Council (with the exception of hearing appeals from the colonies). The present incumbants of the Judicial Committee of the House of Lords, will take be transfered to the new Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. It should be remembered that Parliament is itself a High Court of Justice, its one of its ancient perogratives, the Constitution Reform Act 2005, simply abolished the Judicial Committee of the House of Lords, it has not abolished Parliament as the High Court of Justice; theoretically the House of Lords (or the commons for that matter) could one day once again be the highest appellete court. Now for the OP:D Non-whites were usually given titles in their own realms, the Princly States of British India are the most famous example. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/24 "2009-05-22T23:34:45Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Thanks for the responses. It was an interesting moment for me. As I said, I was listening to a programme (heh) about the history of black TV and cinema in Britain, and they were interviewing a pretty much exclusively black group of people. The narrator introduced “Baroness someone-or-other” and I instinctively thought, “wait, why are they interviewing a white woman”? Which lead instantly down an interesting mental path. “Why would she have to be white?” “Well, I’ve never heard of a black baroness, are there any?” “How could there be - aren’t they all from centuries-old British families, established in the days before racial tolerance?” “Perhaps some have been established since then…” etc, etc. Thus the thread. For the record, they never mentioned the race of this particular baroness. I don’t know how much of a real life precedence there is behind it, but in Thackeray’s novel, _Vanity Fair_, there is a wealthy black/mixed-race heiress, the daughter of a West Indian plantation owner. While both the author and characters make unkind remarks about her dark skin and curly hair, she is sought after for her money and eventually marries a Scottish nobleman. Near the end of the story, she has three sons–the eldest would presumably have taken his father’s title on his death. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/25 "2009-05-23T06:56:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > For a period in the later 20th century, no hereditary titles were given out, only life peerages. Maggie Thatcher put an end to that, though I believe they’re still very rarely given nowadays. The most recent hereditary peerage to be conferred on someone not a member of the royal family is the [Earldom of Stockton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_stockton), granted to the former PM Harold Macmillan in 1984, and now held by his grandson, the 2nd Earl. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/26 "2009-05-23T15:31:18Z")
Sir Roland Hanna ([Roland Hanna Musician - All About Jazz](http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/musician.php?id=2974)) was a well-known jazz pianist. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196/27 "2009-05-23T15:45:35Z")
The Hon. James Lascelles, a grandson of Mary, Princess Royal, herself the daughter of George V, is currently married to a Nigerian woman. Further afield there are plenty of examples in European nobility and royalty. Alexandra Manley, the ex-wife of Prince Joachim of Denmark and mother of two of his sons, is part Hong Kong Chinese. In France, Charles, 6th Duc d’Auerstaedt, was half-Japanese, and his son, the current 7th duc, is half-Moroccan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-non-white-members-of-the-british-aristocracy/497196.md?page=1)