# Are there any other democracies that don't require voter ID? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 18, 2016, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430 "2016-02-18T09:19:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/21 "2016-02-18T19:02:03Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Not to derail this thread, but the anti-voter ID crowd recognizes that getting the photo ID in many locations now requires presenting your birth certificate (and if the name on your birth certificate doesn’t match your current name, documentation of all intervening changes, such as marriage licenses and divorce papers). None of those other documents can be obtained at the same location as the photo ID, and they usually require additional fees, sometimes substantial. Also, if you don’t already have photo ID, in many states you will have to jump through multiple steps (all time-consuming and most expensive) obtaining those documents necessary to obtain the photo ID. Further, in my state there is at least one entire county that doesn’t have any location at which to obtain a photo ID, so if you are homebound or lack ready access to a vehicle, just getting to the ID agency poses difficulty. I suspect Germany does not have any towns that are 100+ miles from a town hall that can issue the ID; your state does. Sure, but if someone can’t manage to arrange all that \*\*\*once every 12 years \*\*\*, it seems to me that it says more about how much priority that person puts on being able to vote, rather than anything about the system itself. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/22 "2016-02-18T21:08:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > With the voter ID debate in America, I’m curious whether any other democracies allow voters to vote without ID. > > Whether voter ID is easy to obtain in America or not is beside the point - I’m just asking whether any other nations allow voters to vote without ID. I remember some elections in places like Iraq using election ink so they didn’t have to worry about people casting multiple votes. > **[Election ink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink)** > > Electoral ink, indelible ink, electoral stain or phosphoric ink is a semi-permanent ink or dye that is applied to the forefinger (usually) of voters during elections in order to prevent electoral fraud such as double voting. It is an effective method for countries where identification documents for citizens are not always standardised or institutionalised. One of the more common election ink compositions is based on silver nitrate, which can produce a stain lasting several weeks. It was first use... Switzerland allows men to use a sword as their evidence of ability to vote. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/23 "2016-02-18T21:26:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, but if someone can’t manage to arrange all that \*\*\*once every 12 years \*\*\*, it seems to me that it says more about how much priority that person puts on being able to vote, rather than anything about the system itself. In my state, it’s every FOUR years for a regular adult license, not twelve. Further, if you don’t have the resources to spend possibly as much as several hundred dollars to obtain the necessary documents, take one or several days off work (with attendant loss of income), and so forth to get that first photo ID, the ability to spend an hour and $12 every couple of years thereafter is basically irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/24 "2016-02-18T22:13:39Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > In my state, it’s every FOUR years for a regular adult license, not twelve. Further, if you don’t have the resources to spend possibly as much as several hundred dollars to obtain the necessary documents, take one or several days off work (with attendant loss of income), and so forth to get that first photo ID, the ability to spend an hour and $12 every couple of years thereafter is basically irrelevant. You only have to do it once with the documents; after that it’s a simple renewal, and doesn’t require much at all. I mean, I had to show up with my birth certificate (which they mail you when a kid is born, so no excuses for not having it, unless you’re an idiot) when I first got my driver’s license at 17, but since then, I’ve been able to renew it either online/mail without a new picture, or periodically have to go in and get a new picture. Even every 4 years isn’t really an imposition, IF you’re serious about wanting to vote. And really… what sort of dark, dank hole divorced from civilization do these people live in that they don’t need photo IDs by the time they’re adults? I pretty much needed one when I was 18 and ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/25 "2016-02-18T22:28:10Z")
[/hijack] To get back to the OP, in Quebec, you usually need both the card you got in the mail telling you where to vote and an ID. But everyone has a health card, so that is not an issue. And there is a provision for voting even if you don’t have the ID. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/26 "2016-02-18T22:44:08Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You only have to do it once with the documents; after that it’s a simple renewal, and doesn’t require much at all. > > I mean, I had to show up with my birth certificate (which they mail you when a kid is born, so no excuses for not having it, unless you’re an idiot) when I first got my driver’s license at 17, but since then, I’ve been able to renew it either online/mail without a new picture, or periodically have to go in and get a new picture. > > Even every 4 years isn’t really an imposition, IF you’re serious about wanting to vote. > > And really… what sort of dark, dank hole divorced from civilization do these people live in that they don’t need photo IDs by the time they’re adults? I pretty much needed one when I was 18 and ever since. I’m sure they mailed my mother a copy of my birth certificate when I was born, too; babies don’t receive mail, however, and when I needed one as an adult I had to buy my own. How exactly and precisely does that make me an idiot? Every time there’s a major tornado in Kansas, the Office of Vital Statistics heads out to help people who lost their documents to the storm’s fury. If it’s only a “minor” natural disaster, though, or a fire or a burglary at your home, you’re on your own. How does a fire make you an idiot? My state requires voter ID, and does not permit any form of online or mail renewal of a driver’s license or state ID (unless you are active-duty military or a military dependent with documentation of that status). If you can’t get yourself to the office in person to have a new picture taken for each and every renewal, the ID will expire and no longer be valid for voting. And for what purpose do you need photo ID all the time? I haven’t traveled by plane in more than two decades, I’m old enough that I don’t get carded at the liquor store, my paycheck is direct-deposited, my doctor knows me and doesn’t ask for ID anymore, etc. The last time I had to pull mine out was the last time my work took me into a prison, and that’s not exactly an everyday occurrence for most people. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/27 "2016-02-18T22:47:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You only have to do it once with the documents; after that it’s a simple renewal, and doesn’t require much at all. Which is the big issue with new voter ID laws being enacted. It makes voting more difficult for people who haven’t been renewing their IDs - e.g. elderly people who no longer drive. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/28 "2016-02-18T22:54:40Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I’m sure they mailed my mother a copy of my birth certificate when I was born, too; babies don’t receive mail, however, and when I needed one as an adult I had to buy my own. How exactly and precisely does that make me an idiot? > > Every time there’s a major tornado in Kansas, the Office of Vital Statistics heads out to help people who lost their documents to the storm’s fury. If it’s only a “minor” natural disaster, though, or a fire or a burglary at your home, you’re on your own. How does a fire make you an idiot? > > My state requires voter ID, and does not permit any form of online or mail renewal of a driver’s license or state ID (unless you are active-duty military or a military dependent with documentation of that status). If you can’t get yourself to the office in person to have a new picture taken for each and every renewal, the ID will expire and no longer be valid for voting. > > And for what purpose do you need photo ID all the time? I haven’t traveled by plane in more than two decades, I’m old enough that I don’t get carded at the liquor store, my paycheck is direct-deposited, my doctor knows me and doesn’t ask for ID anymore, etc. The last time I had to pull mine out was the last time my work took me into a prison, and that’s not exactly an everyday occurrence for most people. Again, a whole long thread went through this topic. (Last year?) If you are a typical middle-class person, you have the health card, the drivers license, the passport, Socail Security card, credit cards and bank cards, who knows what else. If you are someone who’s been living on the streets and can barely afford that bed at the shelter the last decade; or someone working minimum wage at McD’s and the closest you come to ID is your bank card for depositing pay cheques - how do you kick start your ID? You can’t get a birth certificate without an ID. They don’t give them to just anyone. You need someone to vouch for you - if you work at McD’s who can vouch for you other than fellow minimum wage nobodies? If you’ve been a stay-at-home mom in the low rent district? Senior with just a social security cheque? Then there’s the issue that yo actually have to take time off work, go to some office (bus fare) and stand in line for ages, get some complex forms filled out, etc. The forms might seem easy to you, but some people have literacy issues. Some people may want to vote, but not so badly they will give up 2 or 3 days’ pay. If you moved half-way across the country from where you were born, good luck with that birth certificate application… the problem is that the people who have real difficulty with these processes are also the ones more likely to vote a certain way. As Bernie Sanders said about blocking felons from voting - “Someone is benefiting from you not voting. Who would that be?” ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/29 "2016-02-19T01:23:36Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > [New Zealand](http://www.elections.org.nz/voters/voting-election) doesn’t appear to. Nor does [Australia](http://www.elections.org.nz/voters/voting-election), at least in federal elections. The Canadian province of [Manitoba](http://www.electionsmanitoba.ca/pd/Voting/How) seems to only require ID for voting in provincial elections if you’re not registered. In New Zealand, before the EasyVote cards came in you gave your name and address to the volunteers staffing the polling station and they crossed your name off the roll when they handed you the papers. No id presented as I recall. The system seems pretty robust though - it managed to detect [19 fraudulent enrolments](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11205628)in a city election. I’m not aware of any recent examples of voter fraud in national elections, and with our proportional representation system you’d need pretty huge numbers to get any real advantage - roughly 20,000 votes to get another seat for a party. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/30 "2016-02-19T01:48:49Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Which is the big issue with new voter ID laws being enacted. It makes voting more difficult for people who haven’t been renewing their IDs - e.g. elderly people who no longer drive. You would think that would work against the Republicans, not for them then. Still… didn’t your parents give you your birth certificates when you weren’t their responsibility any longer? Mine did. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/31 "2016-02-19T02:00:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You would think that would work against the Republicans, not for them then. > > Still… didn’t your parents give you your birth certificates when you weren’t their responsibility any longer? Mine did. Huh? No. Is this some right of passage I missed out on? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/32 "2016-02-19T02:37:39Z")
ISTM the answer to the thread title is YES, other developed democracies still allow voting in the manner the USA did until the end of the 20th century, with just your evidence of registration and no need for an “official photo ID”. And that many of the ones that do, issue _a universal ID document_ that every citizen or resident gets \*at no additional cost \* (but which in the US political culture would be anathema). > [@slash2k](#): > > I’m sure they mailed my mother a copy of my birth certificate when I was born, too; babies don’t receive mail, however, and when I needed one as an adult I had to buy my own. How exactly and precisely does that make me an idiot? Or the Verified Copy of Certificate of Live Birth (what most people actually go around presenting, Birthers notwhitstanding) as used in that particular state gets so abused and vulnerable to ID theft because of bureaucratic bungling, the government has to put an expiration on those issued before a certain date and print a new format. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/33 "2016-02-19T03:49:08Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You would think that would work against the Republicans, not for them then. > > Still… didn’t your parents give you your birth certificates when you weren’t their responsibility any longer? Mine did. My mom arranged for a copy of my BC to be sent to me when I was a junior in college, only because she needed a copy of her own, and we were born in the same county, so while she was at the office she got a copy of mine for me. My husband didn’t have a copy of his BC until after we got married. He’s adopted, so we had to write to the state to get his (amended) BC, we couldn’t just go to the county office. He said he had asked his mom about it years earlier, but she “got weird” about it so he never pursued it. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/34 "2016-02-19T04:57:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Still… didn’t your parents give you your birth certificates when you weren’t their responsibility any longer? Mine did. And mine didn’t. Do you fondly imagine that everyone grows up with Ward and June Cleaver for parents? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/35 "2016-02-19T05:14:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Still… didn’t your parents give you your birth certificates when you weren’t their responsibility any longer? Mine did. If your parents thought you were incapable of getting your own birth certificate if and when you needed it, was it maybe a little premature of them to conclude that you “weren’t their responsibility any longer”? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/36 "2016-02-19T08:50:27Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And that many of the ones that do, issue _a universal ID document_ that every citizen or resident gets \*at no additional cost \* That’s the case in France. An ID card is necessary to vote, but it’s delivered for free (and also essentially mandatory, not by law but because you’ll need one in many circumstances : opening a bank account, getting a certified letter at the post office,… so pretty much everybody has one). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/37 "2016-02-19T09:05:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s the case in France. An ID card is necessary to vote, but it’s delivered for free (and also essentially mandatory, not by law but because you’ll need one in many circumstances : opening a bank account, getting a certified letter at the post office,… so pretty much everybody has one). Same in South Africa (Although they do charge for replacing lost ones). The idea that you’d have to _pay_ to get the one document that makes you recognizable as a citizen, and is used so often in civil life, is abhorrent to me on a visceral level. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/38 "2016-02-19T10:01:07Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I’ve never required ID in Australia. Here voter registration is compulsory, as well as voting, but as long as you know your name and address there’s no problem in voting. **+1** > [@Doughbag](#): > > You must be registered to vote and you’re ONLY allowed to vote at the polling station you are designated to vote. > To vote somewhere else, if you moved house, you need to apply to vote there or travel “home” to vote. In Australia you can vote in any of the polling stations within your electorate as best suits your goodself. If you are away from your electorate on polling day you can cast an absentee vote at any polling booth in your state. Similarly if you are interstate or overseas. [QUOTE=Australia Electoral Commission;] You can vote early either in person or by post if on election day you: are outside the electorate where you are enrolled to vote are more than 8km from a polling place are travelling are unable to leave your workplace to vote are seriously ill, infirm or due to give birth shortly (or caring for someone who is) are a patient in hospital and can’t vote at the hospital have religious beliefs that prevent you from attending a polling place are in prison serving a sentence of less than three years or otherwise detained are a silent elector have a reasonable fear for your safety. [/quote] Since voting is compulsory getting your vote cast is deliberately made as flexible as possible so as all can be enfranchised. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/39 "2016-02-19T13:06:08Z")
What’s a silent elector? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430/40 "2016-02-19T13:32:57Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What’s a silent elector? Someone whose name, but not address, is on the public electoral roll eg in the case of a re-settled victim of domestic abuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-democracies-that-dont-require-voter-id/746430.md?page=3)