# Are there any other gods that died for me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 28, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730 "2010-02-28T06:10:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/21 "2010-02-28T20:15:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Wasn’t it 30 years? Does simply being a human being count as “suffering?” If that’s the case, then aren’t all humans as great as Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/22 "2010-02-28T20:18:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I’ll defer to someone more knowledgeable than I am to defend the Apostle’s Creed, then! Well, it’s not inconsistent with Scripture to have him going down into Hell, so long as he’s also in Heaven at some point. Maybe he popped upstairs just long enough to escort St. Dismas (the name being another thing that comes only from tradition; the Bible gives no name for the repentant thief) and introduce him around a bit, then went back downstairs to free the patriarchs and other righteous who predated him and to taunt Satan. Or maybe the routing of Hell only took an afternoon, and he went back up to Heaven that evening to kick back for the weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/23 "2010-02-28T22:45:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Does simply being a human being count as “suffering?” If that’s the case, then aren’t all humans as great as Jesus? No, I mean, wasn’t Prometheus chained to the rock for 30 years? Obviously, Prometheus suffered more than Jesus, but this thread isn’t really about Jesus. It’s about martyr gods in other religions. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/24 "2010-02-28T23:43:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, actually. The Bible doesn’t say any of that. The Bible says he was in Paradise that same day (Lk. 23:43). There’s nothing about descending to Hell. That’s non-Biblical Christian tradition. Well, you know the whole “to God an instant is like an eternity and an eternity is like an instant” thing. 3 days to one afternoon is peanuts next to that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/25 "2010-02-28T23:49:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No, I mean, wasn’t Prometheus chained to the rock for 30 years? Obviously, Prometheus suffered more than Jesus, but this thread isn’t really about Jesus. It’s about martyr gods in other religions. I haven’t seen that 30 year number for Prometheus before. My imprssion was that it was from the time he gave man fire to whenever Hercules freed him. I’m pretty sure that even within the chronology of Greek mythology, fire was not still new within the lifetime of Hercules. I’m not an expert on Greek mythology, though. I know the myths have a lot of variations, and there isn’t really a canon, so it may be that there’s a version of the story where Prometheus only suffers for 30 years. I’m juts not familiar with it. If I’m totally wrong about “thousands of years” (which was just an assumption about how long humans would have had fire before the time of Hercules), then I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/26 "2010-03-01T00:13:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I haven’t seen that 30 year number for Prometheus before. My imprssion was that it was from the time he gave man fire to whenever Hercules freed him. I’m pretty sure that even within the chronology of Greek mythology, fire was not still new within the lifetime of Hercules. > > I’m not an expert on Greek mythology, though. I know the myths have a lot of variations, and there isn’t really a canon, so it may be that there’s a version of the story where Prometheus only suffers for 30 years. I’m juts not familiar with it. If I’m totally wrong about “thousands of years” (which was just an assumption about how long humans would have had fire before the time of Hercules), then I stand corrected. I’m seeing it as being either 30 years, or 30,000 years. Genealogically, though, 30 years is too short, and 30,000 years is too long. And technically, Prometheus didn’t give fire to mankind. He gave fire back to mankind after Zeus had taken it in punishment for Prometheus tricking him about the sacrifices. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/27 "2010-03-01T06:52:20Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Odin sacrificed himself by piercing himself with a spear and hanging himself on Yggdrasill. Yes, Oðin sacrificed himself by hanging himself on Yggdrassil to learn wisdom. And who did Oðin sacrifice Oðin to? Oðin. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/28 "2010-03-01T10:04:49Z")
Is there any connection between Prometheus and the Eden story? In both you have a jealous god getting pissed off because humans acquire knowledge they were not meant to have, the knowledge of good and evil and of fire. Both Prometheus and humans/serpent are punished by God for giving knowledge to mankind. Coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/29 "2010-03-01T10:33:57Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes, Oðin sacrificed himself by hanging himself on Yggdrassil to learn wisdom. And who did Oðin sacrifice Oðin to? Oðin. Sure he did. And who did the Christian god sacrifice himself to? That’s right, himself. And why did he do it? to save us from, well, himself. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/30 "2010-03-01T12:52:40Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Just curious. I can find plenty of gods that die, or die and are resurrected (often multiple times for temporary periods). From skimming there even seem to be gods who die for a certain purpose (i.e. agriculture gods who die to fertilize the Earth and are reborn periodically to facilitate this), but I’m having trouble finding one who is killed for “me” or martyred in some way. The god doesn’t necessarily have to die for “sins” but should die for man, or the continuation/betterment of people in a direct way. > > A couple ground rules: > It has to be legitimately worshiped or acknowledged in some way (I say acknowledged so as not to exclude more “philosophical” religions like Buddhism where there aren’t worshiped gods so much as exalted mentors). No fiction (you know what I mean), like Aslan… or Optimus Prime. > > No attacks on religion please. I’d really rather this stay in GQ. You can, of course, debate whether a character in question actually “martyred” him/herself, but that’s it. > > I’d prefer that we keep with deities/exalted figures who faced a deal of adversity leading to their death. While I’m sure Gautama Buddha suffered in absolving himself of his goods (even after he gave up the whole self-mortification thing), and while the end result showed people the way to enlightenment, I want someone who had a situation that was less of a choice, or at the very least wasn’t an entirely personal matter. > > They should at least be somewhat important in the religion they’re part of. They don’t have to be the central deity, or even one of the major ones, but they shouldn’t be “that one dude who gets one candle lit for him during the ceremony celebrating all the deities, but almost nobody pays attention otherwise.” > > It can be before or after Christianity. Obviously the less directly influenced by the story of Jesus the better, but I’m not too picky on the time period or place of origin. If death is final then even a God would not be alive. If a God were not alive then it couldn’t come back. If death just means a change, then that would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/31 "2010-03-01T13:23:32Z")
Dying for you is easy. The Bodhisattva pointedly \*don’t \*die for you. They choose to keep reincarnating over and over to help you get your own pass into Nirvana, rather than using theirs. Now that’s commitment. Didn’t Osiris die for mankind as well ? My Egyptian mythology is really not up to speed, but I recall reading that parts of the story of Jesus were cribbed from prior legends about Isis & Osiris . Any details, ô cultured ones ? ---
**Author:** ![ZomZom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zomzom/32/5620_2.png) [@ZomZom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZomZom)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/32 "2010-03-01T14:53:47Z")
I hope this isn’t too much of a tangent, but how do Christians connect the dots between Jesus dying and me being saved from my sins? The only thing I can think is that it serves as a sort of PR stunt so that he’d be remembered for a long time so we could learn of his teachings. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/33 "2010-03-01T20:56:22Z")
What did Prometheus do after Hercules freed him? ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/34 "2010-03-01T21:15:07Z")
> [@ZomZom](#): > > I hope this isn’t too much of a tangent, but how do Christians connect the dots between Jesus dying and me being saved from my sins? The only thing I can think is that it serves as a sort of PR stunt so that he’d be remembered for a long time so we could learn of his teachings. [Atonement theology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement_in_Christianity) covers this. There have been three major theories advanced (don’t ask me to defend any of them): 1. Ransom atonement; basically, Adam and Eve’s sin “sold” humanity to Satan (all souls went to hell at death), but the death of Christ was so valuable that it paid off this debt. This was prevalent in the early church, but is now out of vogue. 2. Substitution atonement; similar to the above, but discards the payment metaphor and emphasizes Christ’s sacrifice as voluntary; he substitutes himself for whatever penalty we rightly deserve. This, I believe, is the mainstream Christian view. 3. Moral atonement; this is pretty close to your PR stunt; Christ’s perfect obiendence “even unto death” serves as such a perfect moral exemplar that people who hear about it are naturally influenced away from sin. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/35 "2010-03-01T21:28:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No, I mean, wasn’t Prometheus chained to the rock for 30 years? Obviously, Prometheus suffered more than Jesus, but this thread isn’t really about Jesus. It’s about martyr gods in other religions. Aeschylus in _Prometheus Bound_ includes a lengthy dialogue between Prometheus and the wandering Io, another victim of the abusive gods. It includes the following passage: > [@](#): > > IO: And who shall loose them if Zeus wills not? > Of thine own seed. > How say’st thou? Shall a child > Of mine release thee? > > PROMETHEUS: Son of thine, but son > The thirteenth generation shall beget. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/36 "2010-03-01T21:40:11Z")
In some old versions, Osiris was the first to die and be resurrected and he represents both the renewal of the harvest from the flooding of the Nile and the rebirth of the Ba in the afterlife. There is also some indication that the relationship between Osiris and Ra was similar to the rebirth of the sun from the darkness every day. Note that in the usual story, Osiris is not sacrificed ritually, but is instead entombed by his brother Set and then dismembered. This may represent the older agricultural aspects of this deity, in that the threshed wheat is ‘dismembered’ upon its death. I suggest also that John Barleycorn might be a more modern variety of this story. “They’ve hired men with the crab-tree sticks, To cut him skin from bone, And the miller he has served him worse than that, For he’s ground him between two stones.” – Traffic ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/37 "2010-03-01T21:45:32Z")
Osiris also had his “body” ritually eaten in the form of bread. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/38 "2010-03-01T21:50:36Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Aeschylus in _Prometheus Bound_ includes a lengthy dialogue between Prometheus and the wandering Io, another victim of the abusive gods. It includes the following passage: I admit it - I don’t understand what that quote means or if it answers me. I just have an image of the newly freed Prometheus cracking his knuckles and having a good stretch. Hercules asks him what he’s going to do with himself. He says he a few old scores to settle. Or maybe he’s going to wander the countryside planting appleseeds. Or maybe he’s going to find his kinfolk and try and pick up life where he left off. Or maybe he’s doubling down, he’s going to give humanity the secret of squaring the circle. Or… are there answers about what he does? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/39 "2010-03-01T21:56:24Z")
> [@muttrox](#): > > I admit it - I don’t understand what that quote means or if it answers me. I think it was meant to answer not you but **Dio** and **Captain Amazing** , who were trying to figure out how long it took to free Prometheus. **CJJ** \* notes that according to Aeschylus, it took thirteen generations after Prometheus’ little chat with Io for Hercules to show up. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730/40 "2010-03-01T23:12:38Z")
As to the question of whether Jesus went to Hell when he died, 1 Peter 3:18b-20aff seems to suggest so. > [@=NIV](#): > > He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. “Seems to suggest” I said. Anyway, it was actually a bit beside the point to ask whether the NT says Jesus went to hell, since clearly the quoted Creed says so and it is as definitive of Christian doctrine as anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-other-gods-that-died-for-me/530730.md?page=3)