# Are There Any (Real) Monarchists In France? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834 "2015-06-07T00:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/1 "2015-06-07T00:26:04Z")
I ask because the Bourbon family must still be around. Of course, it has been two centuries since the real monarchy (forget King Louis Philippe and Napoleon III), and the ranks of those who want a restoration must be slim. Still, there must be a few keeping the faith. So, in the (highly unlikely) event that France desires a return to monarchy, who is set to take over? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/2 "2015-06-07T01:31:34Z")
Wiki lists 5 “monarchist” parties in France: > **[Category:Monarchist parties in France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Monarchist_parties_in_France)** > > For monarchist political parties in France. > This category has only the following subcategory. > The following 12 pages are in this category, out of 12 total. This list may not reflect recent changes. Mostly, they don’t want a return to an ABSOLUTE monarchy, though. They want some form of constitutional or federalist monarchy, which isn’t completely daft, in and of itself, though these parties tend to have rather extreme notions in other areas. Other European nations, such as the UK, Spain, Belgium, The Netherlands, Sweden, Norway and Denmark have them, after all. And in some cases, the monarchies were restored in comparatively recent times. Norway, for instance, at the turn of the 20th Century when granted independence from Sweden - there was a referendum, and restoring the monarchy won vs. just having a republic. ETA: Your two main claimants, discounting Bonapartists, would be these guys: > **[Henri, Count of Paris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d%27Orl%C3%A9ans,_Count_of_Paris)** > > Henri, Count of Paris, Henri d'Orleans and Henri, Duke of France are all names taken by recent claimants to the French throne. > **[Louis Alphonse de Bourbon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alphonse,_Duke_of_Anjou)** > > Louis Alphonse de Bourbon (Spanish: Luis Alfonso Gonzalo Víctor Manuel Marco de Borbón y Martínez-Bordiú born 25 April 1974) is the head of the House of Bourbon. Members of the family formerly ruled France and other countries. According to the Legitimists, Louis Alphonse is considered the pretender to the defunct throne of France as Louis XX. With the death of his father, he has been using the title of Duke of Anjou since 1989. > Louis Alphonse considers himself the senior heir of Hugh Capet, Ki... ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/3 "2015-06-07T02:02:46Z")
The legitimists, the supporters of the real Kings, the Bourbons rightful Kings of France ( and of course other places ) are loyal to Louis XX, known as le Duc d’Anjou ( just as my King, Francis, goes by the lesser title of Duke ( Herzog ) of Bavaria ). The Orleanists represent the substitute ‘Kings of the French’, Louis-Philippe’s mob: a usurping line selected as imitations, just like the Guelph-Hannoverians now known as the Windsors in my own country. It is common in most European countries to have a real line of Kings and one wished in by rebelling parliamentary forces. The Bonapartists are just heirs to his short-lived Empire, not to the ancient throne of France, and are scarcely important, except as exotic ersatz aristocracy. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/4 "2015-06-07T02:21:22Z")
There’s monarchists is virtually every non-monarchy around. As indicated above, France is no exception. Nor is the US, for that matter. Some want the British monarchy reimposed plus there are some who want the Hawaiian monarchy reinstated. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/5 "2015-06-07T06:55:36Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > The legitimists, the supporters of the real Kings, the Bourbons rightful Kings of France ( and of course other places ) are loyal to Louis XX, known as le Duc d’Anjou ( just as my King, Francis, goes by the lesser title of Duke ( Herzog ) of Bavaria ). > The Orleanists represent the substitute ‘Kings of the French’, Louis-Philippe’s mob: a usurping line selected as imitations, just like the Guelph-Hannoverians now known as the Windsors in my own country. Inevitably, it’s a bit more complicated than that. Since 1883 there have been no male line descendants of Louis XV. So there are some Legitimists who are also Orléanists, on the basis that Philip V of Spain renounced his claim to the French throne. If you discount Philip V’s descendants, the next in line just happens to be the Count of Paris, the same candidate supported by the Orléanists. That almost became important in 1871, the last point at which there was a realistic chance of a restoration of the monarchy. The Orléanists and the Legitimists together had a majority in the National Assembly. Most of the Legitimists were therefore willing to recognise the Orléanists candidate as the heir to their candidate, the childless Count of Chambord, while, conversely, most of the Orléanists were willing to recognise Chambord. Only Chambord’s intransigence over other issues blew his chances. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/6 "2015-06-07T07:19:09Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > The Bonapartists are just heirs to his short-lived Empire, not to the ancient throne of France, and are scarcely important, except as exotic ersatz aristocracy. A propos of nothing, [the current heir](http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Christophe_Napol%C3%A9on) manages to both be a striking living portrait of \*that \*Bonaparte, and have one of the most punchable faces I’ve ever come across this side of Sean Hannity. [QUOTE=yabob] Mostly, they don’t want a return to an ABSOLUTE monarchy, though. They want some form of constitutional or federalist monarchy, which isn’t completely daft, in and of itself [/QUOTE] It’s not ?! Coulda fooled me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/7 "2015-06-07T08:28:38Z")
Yes, there are _some_ monarchists in France. During the 70s, they once or twice had a candidate for presidency. I met a couple of them in my life. But they’re anecdotal, and it’s not something that’s discussed or even mentioned by regular people. The previous Orleanist pretender, who died in 1999, was a relatively well know figure and people were relatively familiar with him. But the current one would be only familiar to the most avid readers of people magazines specialized in royals (as opposed to those dedicated to famous actors, singers, etc…), as even in those magazines, this family doesn’t rank very high in proeminence. The legitimist pretender is virtually unknown. As mentioned by **Kobal** , there are also some bonapartists around. In fact, the bonapartist party was still having some electoral successes in Corsica, I would guess again until the late 90s, having some people elected for instance as mayor (there wasn’t any monarchist or bonapartist elected at a proeminent position, like say the parliament, in ages). No party supporting a monarchy had any significance politically since the 1930s, when there were still some right wingers who fancied a monarchist system. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > The legitimists, the supporters of the real Kings, the Bourbons rightful Kings of France ( and of course other places ) are loyal to Louis XX, known as le Duc d’Anjou ( just as my King, Francis, goes by the lesser title of Duke ( Herzog ) of Bavaria ). > The Orleanists represent the substitute ‘Kings of the French’, Louis-Philippe’s mob: Now, that’s ridiculous. As I said, the Orleanists are the only ones who are even remotely known by a part of the population, thanks to dad’s good PR and friendship with De Gaulle. The dispute between the two branches is a dispute within a microcosm, and of no relevance for anybody else. And regarding the basis for both claims : The legitimist pretender is a direct descendant of Louis XIV through his second son Philippe who became king of the Spain at the cost of of renouncing by treaty to any claim to the throne of France for himself and his descendance following the war of Spanish succession (he’s not the current king of Spain, because the Spanish throne passed to a female heir during the 19th century). The orleanist pretender is a descendant of Louis XIV’s brother. So the dispute (very important during the 19th century, in fact without this dispute, monarchy might have been restored in France back then) rests almost entirely on the issue of deciding if Philippe’s renounciation to the throne of France could be legally binding according to the former laws of the kingdom, or if it was null and void according to these laws. Other arguments, namely that the legitimist pretender is a foreign national who couldn’t inherit the French throne according to some orleanists, and that the orleanist pretender is the heir of the last king of France (Louis Philippe d’Orleans, picked as king after Charles X was ousted in the 1830 revolution), are of secondary importance. Note that both families battled in courts for a very long time, ostensibly over indirect issues related to their claim, like about who had the right to use the arms of France. For my part, I think that the fundamental laws of the kingdom indeed prevented the renunciation, because the king couldn’t dispose of the throne (For instance Louis XIV’s will, that included provisions about his succession in case his great grandson Louis XV were to die, was cancelled by courts after his death on this basis). But good luck making a really solid argument about it, given there’s no precedent. And anyway, of course, even if monarchy was to be reestablished, there’s no particular reason to follow the 17th/18th century rules, rather than the 19th century ones (and pick as king a descendant of Napoleon or Louis Philippe) or the 10th century ones (and pick a descendant of Charlemagne), or to decide that Salic law is sexist and hand the throne to a descendant in female line of some king or another, or to make up the new rules (and elect the new king, or offer the throne to the prince of Monaco, or whatever…). ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/8 "2015-06-07T08:48:17Z")
The French, whose president is a figurehead like the British royals, have been less than happy with the holders of that office in recent years. While very few Frenchmen would countenance any kind of executive monarchy, they must look at us and the Dutch with a degree of, if not actual envy, at least a recognition that having the titular head of state determined by the lottery of inheritance, with the next-in-line being groomed from birth, might be better than appointing failed politicians to the role. It’s never going to happen of course. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/9 "2015-06-07T09:40:18Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > The French, whose president is a figurehead like the British royals, The French president isn’t a figurehead, contrarily to, say, the German or Italian president. France uses what is often called a semi-presidential system, which has features of both presidential and parliamentary system. Basically, if he’s backed by a majority in the parliament, he’s fully in charge, like in a presidential system (USA). If he lacks this majority, the prime minister supported by the parliament is in charge, like in a parliamentary system (Germany). And _even in the second case_, he still retains non insignificant powers, contrarily to his counterparts in parliamentary systems. The two most blatant examples being that he can dissolve the parliament (art 12 of the constitution) or even more unusual, take what are essentially dictatorial powers in some circumstances (art 16). And besides these powers explicitely mentioned in the constitution, he is also by tradition associated with foreign affairs and defense policies and decisions even when a government of a different political persuasion is in charge. The respective roles of the president and of the prime minister in a “normal” situation (when the president has a majority) aren’t extremely well delineated in the constitution, and depend on the circumstances (for instance the president can have to pick a prime minister he doesn’t fancy that much to satisfy a wing of his majority, potentially leading to conflicts) and the personalities involved (for instance De Gaulle seemed to view his prime ministers as ranking barely above personal assistants); but very generally speaking, the president tends to define the overall strategies and policies while the prime minister delves more in their implementation. And the president tends to be more involved in foreign policies while the prime ministre is more involved in domestic policies. But these aren’t hard rules. Also, the prime minister serves as fuse wire. If the government becomes unpopular, he’s typically sacrificed and replaced to “protect” the president and in the hope that a new head of government will revert the tendancy. > [@](#): > > they must look at us and the Dutch with a degree of, if not actual envy, at least a recognition that having the titular head of state determined by the lottery of inheritance, with the next-in-line being groomed from birth, might be better than appointing failed politicians to the role. I frankly think you’re vastly overestimating the interest people living in republican systems have in monarchist models. That kind of argument is used and discussed in monarchies to support the existing system, but not heard over here. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/10 "2015-06-07T10:00:23Z")
Constitutional monarchies have power and respect because of the centuries of tradition backing them up. You can’t just create tradition out of thin air in countries with no recent monarchical history, like France. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/11 "2015-06-07T10:14:06Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > While very few Frenchmen would countenance any kind of executive monarchy, they must look at us and the Dutch with a degree of, if not actual envy, at least a recognition that having the titular head of state determined by the lottery of inheritance, with the next-in-line being groomed from birth, might be better than appointing failed politicians to the role. Pretty sure by now it’s hardcoded at the genetic level that we French can’t look at anything British with anything other than haughty and undisguised contempt :). I would also agree with \*\*clairobscur \*\*that the office of _President de la République_ is far from being an empty figurehead. They most certainly have a lot more impact on policy, application of policy and foreign diplomacy than the British Crown does. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/12 "2015-06-07T13:41:55Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > … While very few Frenchmen would countenance any kind of executive monarchy, they must look at us and the Dutch with a degree of, if not actual envy, at least a recognition that having the titular head of state determined by the lottery of inheritance, with the next-in-line being groomed from birth, might be better than appointing failed politicians to the role. … 'Merkin here, but one who pays unusual attention to European politics. IMO, Brits such as **bob++** have their perception coloured by the unusually successful reign of ER-II. Had they had lesser, flakier, folks on the throne since WWII they’d be much less likely to think the French, or any one else, would think highly of the institution of Monarchy. I suspect a plurality (majority?) of Brits today would consider Prince Charles an example of a “failed royal” and are quite glad he wasn’t appointed King-for-Life a few decades ago. Placing a “failed \” in a position of power is a bad idea. Giving them a life appointment is double-bad. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/13 "2015-06-07T14:33:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s not ?! Coulda fooled me. Would it make you happier if I replaced “isn’t completely daft” with “is relatively harmless”? The point is that many constitutional monarchies exist, and function reasonably well, or if they don’t, the existence of a symbolic monarch with no real power to do anything isn’t the reason. As I said, most of those parties are a bit off the rails in other areas, anyhow. > [@](#): > > Constitutional monarchies have power and respect because of the centuries of tradition backing them up. You can’t just create tradition out of thin air in countries with no recent monarchical history, like France. Not sure I agree with the first assumption. Constitutional monarchies DO exist to connect a country visibly to its history, but I’m not sure we accord any extra respect to, say, Belgium, because they have a monarch. It’s more for internal consumption, and if the citizenry is happy with essentially having a mascot, you can give them one. Hence the reinstatement of the Norwegian monarchy in 1905 when they were granted independence from Sweden - the citizens were given a referendum of restoring the monarchy (with appropriate constitutional restrictions) versus having a republic, and they chose “monarchy”. Then they had to figure out just WHO was actually king, eventually choosing a Danish prince. Harold V today seems to do a reasonable job of being a visible symbol of Norwegian tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/14 "2015-06-07T14:51:34Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Would it make you happier if I replaced “isn’t completely daft” with “is relatively harmless”? The point is that many constitutional monarchies exist, and function reasonably well, or if they don’t, the existence of a symbolic monarch with no real power to do anything isn’t the reason. Even the phrase “relatively harmless” implies that \*some \*token harm exists. And while I’d agree with you that most European constitutional monarchies have declawed their respective crowned heads to the point that they might as well be replaced by tapestries (at a much lower cost to the taxpayer, too :D) ; I’m not seeing any _upside_ to them. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/15 "2015-06-07T14:52:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IMO, Brits such as **bob++** have their perception coloured by the unusually successful reign of ER-II. Had they had lesser, flakier, folks on the throne since WWII they’d be much less likely to think the French, or any one else, would think highly of the institution of Monarchy. Agreed. The idea of training the heir for the job from the beginning sounds nice, but when the material you’re working with is shit, all you can make is manure. No amount of grooming could have made Elena de Borbón a good Queen Regnant - at best she would have been on the level of an Isabel II or the second half of the Hapsburgs (Carlos II excluded). ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/16 "2015-06-07T15:15:31Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > And in some cases, the monarchies were restored in comparatively recent times. Norway, for instance, at the turn of the 20th Century when granted independence from Sweden - there was a referendum, and restoring the monarchy won vs. just having a republic. No, that’s an inaccurate description of the referendum, even if it’s how it’s usually referred to by politicians and population alike. In fact it was a yes-no-vote on supporting the government’s desire to ask prince Carl of Denmark to accept the position of king. A yes vote meant keeping the constitution unaltered, close ties to Britain, since they new queen was daughter to the reigning British monarch, and stable government. A no vote meant … a no to all those things, not a vote for a republic, but a vote for uncertainty and delay. The government made it clear they intended to resign if they did not receive popular support, the majority of the parliament were for, and there was no clear alternative presented. The majority of the parliament were for the monarch for pragmatic reasons, being republicans in principle, but afraid that a change in the form of government would alienate us from our neighbouring countries, all of them monarchies. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/17 "2015-06-07T15:23:04Z")
I kind of like the idea of restoring Versailles as a royal palace and seat of government…I’m sure that the ghost of Louis XIV would look with favor on this. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/18 "2015-06-07T15:49:27Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Not sure I agree with the first assumption. Constitutional monarchies DO exist to connect a country visibly to its history, but I’m not sure we accord any extra respect to, say, Belgium, because they have a monarch. It’s more for internal consumption I believe that was what was meant in the quoted line – a succesful standing tradition of constitutional monarchy is one respected _by the country itself_. For instance in the Scottish independence referendum the basic presumption was of retaining the Queen in the style of a Commonwealth Realm, not of a republic, but commenters were hinting that once she were gone, _then_ that might change (IIRC that has itself been mentioned in other Realms, that maybe upon the succession from E2R will be time to reconsider the whole quaint notion). In the case of France la Republique seems to have sunk strong roots and the whole mythology around crowned heads becoming rolling heads is a sort of unofficial part of the national branding (not many outsiders realize it stayed some sort of monarchy/empire for most of the next eightyish years). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/19 "2015-06-07T15:54:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I kind of like the idea of restoring Versailles as a royal palace and seat of government…I’m sure that the ghost of Louis XIV would look with favor on this. And lose all that sweet, sweet tourist money ? Inconceivable ! 'sides, Versailles is pretty kitsch, honestly. The gardens are fantastic, but the palace itself… at some point, an interior decorator has to realize that the answer to “how much gold leaf does this room need ?” is not universally “MOAR ! ALL OF IT !” :). It’s a Donald Trump castle ™. When I eventually subject the Republic to my Imperial, divine rule I’m crashing Chambord. Much more tasteful. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834/20 "2015-06-07T16:03:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The gardens are fantastic, but the palace itself… at some point, an interior decorator has to realize that the answer to “how much gold leaf does this room need ?” is not universally “MOAR ! ALL OF IT !” 🙂 When your indoor plumbing is lacking, you need every distraction you can throw at the joint. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-real-monarchists-in-france/721834.md?page=2)