The thing that disturbs me the most is Platner’s response to the allegations. He isn’t apologizing for them, or even denying them. Rather, his defense is, “I’m being opposed by corporate interests and the powers that be, and that’s why they’re saying these things.” It’s like a poisoning the well and ad hominem fallacy mixed into one.
By that logic, a candidate could murder someone, and then when his political opponents bring up the murder, he says “I’m being opposed by evil corporate powers-that-be.”
And it’s also a growing hijack in this thread. Please feel free to comment on Platner being an unserious candidate, or how you find prominent politicians support unconvincing, but please take the premise that America is not a serious Country to another thread, or create one of your own in P&E or in the Pit depending on how polite you want to be. It’s an absolutely fair discussion, but too general for this thread.
Then why would you endanger that by supporting Platner?
Again: If Platner or Collins wins, we lose that Senate seat, because the evidence, such as it is, is that Platner will, like Collins, vote in ways to continue dismantling our democracy. If Platner wins, then we also lose other Senate seats, because running an obvious Nazi will sway a lot of low-information voters, in all states, against the Democratic party as a whole.
You’re guessing. Platner may turn out to be a reliable Democratic vote. There’s no way you could possibly know for sure one way or the other. Collins, on the other hand, has years of reliable Republican and Trump support behind her.
What I think is that the bar is already full of fascists.
I’m also not at all convinced that Platner is a Nazi. I’m not 100% convinced that he’s not some flavor or other of totalitarian, but I’m nowhere near convinced that he is, either. Not everyone who’s an asshole in their 20’s is still an asshole in their 40’s. And we know how Collins votes and who she caucuses with, whatever she tells herself to get to sleep at night.
Control of the Senate has nothing to do with how someone votes. It has to do entirely with who they caucus with. Platner will reliably advance Democratic interests just by holding the seat, if he’s the 51st Democrat; and he might well be. Better yet if he votes as he currently talks; but that’s not the crucial point, as you still seem to be missing.
I think it’s quite unlikely that Platner’s immediately going to jump ship and caucus with the Republicans. We know who Collins caucuses with. If she were going to change parties, she’d have done it by now.
If what you’re saying is that USA politics are royally (OK, I’m going to leave that term in there, it’s in some ways appropriate) screwed up and that we may not make it through this — I agree with you there.
Sometimes in a screwed up situation there are no good choices. Sometimes there is however a less bad choice, and a worse one. It’s my opinion based on the current evidence that electing a Republican is the worse choice here.
What would that even mean? Grassroots don’t have “standards of candidate selection”. Grassroots select who they damn please. Grassroots selected Trump, the first time. In 2016 the party insiders didn’t want him.
The parties stopped picking candidates because of grassroots rebellion against having party insiders choose who the general population got the chance to vote for. We’re now seeing — even more in the Republican party than in the Democratic party — the downsides of that choice. But it happened because the downsides of having the party apparatus pick the candidates were all too clear: only a handful of people got any real say.
I don’t know a good way out of that problem. It’s not just a problem with the USA. It’s a problem with the whole damn species.
Have to call BS on this one. Listen to the Pod Save America, the NY Times podcast or town halls that are easily found on YouTube. Platner covers the abuse allegations, and in one extremely visceral piece on the NY Times interview he initially responds as a macho man downplaying the origins of his PTSD, and then stops, has a flashback and very painfully narrates the incident.
You may be hearing only cherry picked and very selective quotes or sound bites where he does indeed go after corporate vested interests, the billionaire class, the Epstein class and standing up for working class needs that matter to Maine voters such as not closing rural hospitals.
Enquiring minds can disagree, but in parallel with this debate, there is a textbook swift boating opposition campaign on-going. Likewise, a swift boat operation against James Talarico is also going. Talarico is a Presbyterian seminarian, and the attack line there is he is a closet vegan and has a make-believe girlfriend (eg, he’s gay).
Yeah–my social media feed has been showing me clips of Platner actually talking, and I can see his appeal in his actual words and positions. I’ve seen some real con artist politicians, and he doesn’t come across that way at all to me. Maybe I’m being fooled, but I don’t think so. I think he’s just got a real dumbass streak sometimes, not that he’s insincere.
No longer- he had it removed. But all his buddies picked the same tat. Are they all nazis? Is that Tattoo parlor a secret Nazi base? Or did they pick that tat as the skull and crossbones motif was being used widely by the Marines there? Given young drunk marines in a combat area, I am gonna bet on the latter.
Yeah, that’s the point here.
Exactly.
Yes, because the GOP is running scared and they are swiftboating him. Remember the worst accusation against him, the one posters keep harping on- is from a MAGA operative. I generally disbelieve anything a MAGA says to start. And so had many posters here, until this one republican came out with accusations- suddenly they believe a Republican who is clearly trying to make sure a Dem candidate loses.
There aren’t many tattoo parlors that just do a couple of Nazi designs on request. Tattoo artists get a lot of such requests, so they learn fairly quickly what they are, and they have to decide whether that’s the kind of clientele they want to serve. If you’ve walked by or into a Nazi-friendly tattoo shop, there’s no mistaking where you are. It’s never just one little totenkopf. Legit shops don’t do them because they don’t want that kind of traffic.
This is more about the sexting and the domestic violence allegations but there’s no rule against negative campaigning and opposition research in the primaries. One of the biggest benefits parties get out of primaries is that candidates flaws come out and we see who can survive an adversarial challenge. Thd latest stuff is coming out so late, not to mention the only other real candidate already suspended her campaign and there is no one else with even a chance to capitalize in the primary.
I get that this seems true to you, but accept the fact that his polling in Maine did not crater or drop at all after the tattoo bit came out: it solidified and that was when Mills dropped out. I doubt most voters in Maine want to support someone they consider an obvious Nazi and many are low information voters. They just did not come to the same conclusion you have.
In other states? Even more so. They will be voting against or for Trump and based on the specific candidate and issues in their local races.
My sense of it is that he was not supported based on his being hurly burly but on being not establishment and of the major change mode.
That said there is something to be said to having some representation of the under represented fairly ignored group of the working class man. They can also win elections, and also have a place in the Democratic tent. Think of him as a DEI move.
Right, because contrary to what some are saying here, the Republican noise machine has not yet started up on him. They want him to win the primary. And as soon as the primary’s over, they can start flooding the information-waves with how the Democrats are the party that’s running an open Nazi.
God, I wish the mods would close this thread. It’s the same half dozen posters who are sure they are right just repeating themselves for a thousand posts. And you know that none of them will ever admit if they are wrong if Platner wins and proves them wrong.
The naysayers here are barely even complaining about the real Graham Platner at this point. Instead you’ve all been complaining about a strawman version of Platner that you’ve invented out of a combination of innuendos, rumors, and wild speculation
There is, simply put, zero evidence that Platner is;
An open Nazi
A secret Nazi
Going to switch parties once elected
A serial abuser
A pedophile
A kidnapper
A white supremacist
A Manchin/Fetterman/Sinema type
A pathological liar
Or just about any of the other things that you keep repeating over and over.
It’s an assumption on your part that he was “hiding” anything to begin with. It’s a bathroom mirror selfie - SOME part of his chest is going to be obscured by his phone and he’s holding it in a natural position with his dominant hand. Do you suppose he held his hand in front of his chest every time he had sex with his wife, or is she a secret Nazi too?
On the other hand, Platner does call out more than just this short list:
Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
Is for the working class, and IMHO correctly opens the tent to anyone that works for a living be it a grocery store wage slave or a high tech dude that also might lose his house when AI takes his job
(full disclosure, I was laid off a year ago at Microsoft after 19 years owing to AI. I don’t expect much sympathy from a grocery store wage slave, but I go from being top 10% tax paying income earners to unemployed).
Calls out the billionaire class and the Epstein class as being bad for democracy and for the working class.
Beholden interests that pay lip service but are bad for the working class
Has listed out policies he supports or would try to enact to help working class Mainer’s
Actually served multiple tours of combat in Iraq, and more limited role in Afganistan.
Dunno about you, but IMHO here’s Platner talking about his PTSD. Who would you rather have making war fighting decisions? Platner vs Collins Vs God is a white man pistol Pete Hegseth Vs President Bone Spurs?
Again, this is a board fighting ignorance. Pretty thin on cites “proving” that Platner is as @Smapti pointed out above. I remember the promise of the interwebs is that enquiring minds would actually go view the source material and then make up minds based on fact and not the standard swift boating playbook. YMMV.
Wow, the Nazi tattoo guy is very concerned about the pretendicide, billionaires, and the Epstein class? Great. I’m sure he has opinions on lots of other important issues like usury, the kidnapping of Christian babies to drain their blood, and the injustice of circumcision.