# Are there any reliable, affordable used sedans other than Honda and Toyota **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328 "2019-02-28T03:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/21 "2019-02-28T19:38:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I know Toyota and Honda are the most reliable sedans out there. My understanding (correct me if I’m wrong): 10-20 years ago (maybe even more), this was the standard advice. Because of their reputation for reliability, demand for used Toyotas and Hondas increased, which means you’d have to pay more for one of them than for a comparable car of a different make. Thus, used Toyotas and Hondas have become relatively overpriced, or at least not as good a value. Meanwhile, a few other makes (like Hyundai and Kia) have significantly improved their quality and reliability. In fact, nowadays nearly all cars are more reliable than they used to be (decades ago). Personally, I’m on about my tenth year of driving a 2007 Ford Taurus. I’ve been happy with it and it’s been mostly pretty reliable, though it has had heater issues. If-and-when I’m ready to replace it, I’d be open to considering various different makes, but a Toyota or Honda wouldn’t be at the top of my list due to the reason I mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/22 "2019-02-28T19:43:45Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > The only problem with a Taurus is that it’s a large sedan and the OP inquired about mid-sized ones. Through the 2007 year, Tauruses were classed as mid-sized cars (back when the Crown Victoria was Ford’s full-size sedan). Then the Taurus was discontinued, only to be revived in a new version a year or two later, now classified as a full-size. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/23 "2019-02-28T19:46:48Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Chevy Malibu My problem with the Malibu is the name. If you say “Malibu…” I instantly word-associate “…Barbie”! I don’t want to be driving Malibu Barbie’s car. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/24 "2019-02-28T19:53:47Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > 10-20 years ago (maybe even more), this was the standard advice. Because of their reputation for reliability, demand for used Toyotas and Hondas increased, which means you’d have to pay more for one of them than for a comparable car of a different make. This also makes them some of the most-stolen cars in America. [https://www.carfax.com/blog/10-most-stolen-cars-2015](https://www.carfax.com/blog/10-most-stolen-cars-2015) ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/25 "2019-02-28T22:15:44Z")
I had a 2010 Ford Focus from 2011 until 2018. It worked great as far as I was concerned. Got good gas mileage, rarely required expensive repairs, and when a truck knocked me off the interstate at 60 mph in a snowstorm and I rolled one-and-a-half times and landed in a ditch, it kept me alive. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/26 "2019-02-28T23:00:35Z")
I’ve had 4 different Saturns over the years and those were some dependable cars, definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/27 "2019-02-28T23:24:08Z")
Between 100k and 200k …I wouldn’t sweat it it too much. Outside a few models most recent year cars have essentially no issues in that range, save for 08-12 CVT trannies from nearly every company…maybe beyond that I’m not sure, and Chrysler products. Other than that I’d just pick what suits you, based on other factors. Want to go to 300k with minimal repair expense then Toyotas , other than a few early 2000s( , I’m thinking 02-06) will get you there. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/28 "2019-02-28T23:30:45Z")
My current DD is a 97 Camry v6 w 287k. Outside regular maintenance it’s needed a starter. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/29 "2019-02-28T23:43:51Z")
I like Fords and Nissans. And BMWs. Especially BMWs. Subaru is a good car. I’m reasonably happy with the Suzuki I got for the wife. There ya go! ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/30 "2019-03-01T00:03:28Z")
Honda’s disadvantage to me is that parts seem to tend to be more expensive and they have a proclivity for using fine thread bolts that tend to seize or strip more commonly and turn simple cheap Repairs into complex expensive ones. That and stiff seats. Mazda has their own version of that, which is let’s use 80 small bolts in place of 8 large ones…same effect. Those problem years for Toyota were due to a heavy insulator under the intake manifold on 4 cylinders, which would anneal the aluminum block from heat cycles and cause the rear center 3 head bolts to strip and then blow the head gasket. Repairing the block made for a very expensive fix, typically at 150-180k ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/31 "2019-03-01T13:57:09Z")
By the way, my source for the reliability on the Prius : > **[How Much Do Car Maintenance Costs Increase with Mileage? | YourMechanic Advice](https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-much-do-maintenance-costs-increase-by-mileage-by-maddy-martin)** > > The average car costs $1,400 to maintain up to 25,000 miles, then costs rise rapidly until 100,000 miles. Toyota wins as the cheapest car to maintain. The Consumer Reports data is similar. So, to reiterate: Highest reliability. Lowest cost per mile driven for a used car. (Teslas and Leafs are cheaper to drive per mile in fuel costs but have reliability issues) Higher capital cost - but remember, it’s not the price of a car that gets you, it’s the depreciation. If cars didn’t depreciate, a more expensive car would only matter due to the interest. And Prii have low depreciation, especially if you buy one 5-7 years old where the depreciation rate is low per year. (about $1000-$2000) And you realistically probably won’t have battery trouble but if you do, there are rebuilt batteries available for $1000 and brand new batteries for $2000. The other components in Prii rarely break, and thus in the unlikely even you do break one, you can get the part pulled from a wrecked Prii with low miles for a modest cost on ebay. Oh, even your insurance rates will be lower - Prius is the least stolen car in America. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/32 "2019-03-01T16:43:02Z")
I appreciate the replies so far. To clarify, I prefer a midsize sedan but would be open to compacts, subcompacts and full size too. > [@SamuelA](#): > > Get a Prius. 150k mile total maintenance costs are the lowest of all cars and trucks in the my mechanic data. Don’t let the battery scare you- replacement is 1-2k. And the Prius uses a type of e-CVT that has no belts and uses fixed gears, giving it a lifespan typically more than the car. > > And also the fuel costs are the lowest of any car in that price range, and even the brake pads typically last much longer. > > I bought a 2012 with 82k miles for 9500, well within your price criteria. > > Frankly the Prius will be your cheapest option in terms of total costs unless you drive very few miles per year. (If you drive few miles you don’t benefit much from the fuel efficiency but pay the Toyota and hybrid premium when you buy it) I’ve thought about that. I’ve seen used prius models in my price range. Also the gas savings sound nice. I currently drive around 15,000 miles a year. In my Hyundai Sonata that works out to about ~700 gallons of fuel a year. In a prius, it’d be closer to ~300 gallons of fuel a year. So I’d save about $1000 a year on fuel. What about other hybrid models? What about the Honda Insight? Any impression about them? Also where are you getting the 1-2k price figure? I’ve read its at least 2k for the battery alone, plus the cost of installation adds even more. You mention re-manufactured batteries, but there is still the installation cost. I’m not sure how long a hybrid will go before the battery needs replacing. I think the new ones are warrantied for 150k miles, but the cars I’m looking at are closer to 10 years old. If the battery will last to 200k miles, that isn’t terrible. By then the car isn’t worth much anyway. However that $1000 in fuel savings may not matter as much if the cost of a new battery, or the loss in resale value after the battery fails causes the car to cost me an additional several grand. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/33 "2019-03-01T17:15:09Z")
Prius battery replacement:. They do installs if you live near Houston.[https://www.hometownhybrids.com/](https://www.hometownhybrids.com/) If not, they will ship you a battery with new cells from Toyota for 2k. It’s one metal box and about an hour to swap with many videos online showing how. Safe to do as long as you use the HV disconnect. And rebuilds are also available for 1k. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/34 "2019-03-01T17:21:13Z")
Also, certain Toyota dealerships will ship you a battery for around the same price -priuschat has the details. The Prius has a lot more engineering in it and is a more stable and reliable design than other hybrids. This is why it has lower failure rates. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbazine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbazine/32/362_2.png) [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/35 "2019-03-01T17:42:28Z")
Prior to 2010 some Mazdas were built with a truly horrible Ford transmission. Stay away from them. Otherwise Mazdas are great cars these days. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/36 "2019-03-01T18:47:16Z")
I’d be somewhat worried about a used Subaru due to their long history of head gasket issues, and I currently own one. It’s probably okay to buy a newer one but not an older one (say 2011 on). I think I’m okay, but I’m hoping to only get 3-5 more years out of my Forester. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/37 "2019-03-01T19:53:12Z")
> [@Bumbazine](#): > > Prior to 2010 some Mazdas were built with a truly horrible Ford transmission. Stay away from them. Otherwise Mazdas are great cars these days. I don’t hear any complaints about Mazda B (Ford Ranger). Ford’s CX-9 Gen1 is inferior to the Mazda Gen2 though. And the OP is into a 3 or 6, which are always Japanese. And the RX series (newest will be RX-9, possibly 2020) aren’t very reliable cars, but then people don’t buy those because they’re practical. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/38 "2019-03-02T03:11:25Z")
Tops: Toyota and Honda. Right behind them: Mazda and Subaru. ---
**Author:** ![justanothermike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@justanothermike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanothermike)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/39 "2019-03-02T04:22:51Z")
I would run from Kias. My parents had a Sportage and the engine died @70k miles. My friend had a Forte and just 3 weeks ago his engine went @70k miles. Turns out a whole bunch of Kias had something improperly machined and there were shavings floating around and many were recalled (though his Forte wasn’t on the list). His just bit the dust. Trying to get the warranty honored wasn’t fun. I knew a lady with two Kia Souls that didn’t last long at all. She got a deal of some sort when she bought them. I’ve never known one person with a Kia that lasted. I buy old cars for $3000-3500 and run them for years in our business. I look for low miles and do research to see what the common issues are. Right now I drive a 2001 Mazda MPV in our business every day. We’ve had it for 6-7 years or so. Paid $3500 and got it with 90k. Just went over 173k today and has never needed anything other than tires, finally needed brakes months ago, a battery, alternator, and power window motors. Had a 1992 Toyota Paseo for 8 years, put 100k on it, and never did much until the clutch went out in the end. I’m partial to Toyotas but they do cost more. I do like Mazdas and have had good luck with them. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328/40 "2019-03-02T13:27:49Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’d be somewhat worried about a used Subaru due to their long history of head gasket issues, and I currently own one. It’s probably okay to buy a newer one but not an older one (say 2011 on). I think I’m okay, but I’m hoping to only get 3-5 more years out of my Forester. I’ve heard that about Subies for years going back to 1999, OK to buy a new one, not a old one. In my experience (which I’ve had 2), the new ones without the problem become the old ones with the problem, and yes they still have that issue, though not the new ones only the old ones (if you get my drift). I’ve also heard it as a flaw in the boxer design and due to the bottom side of the head gasket always sitting in oil, while the top does not when the car is at rest which causes a uneven softening to them over time. The head gasket was a bit hardened over the years but due to the boxer design it’s not really fixable except by replacing the head gasket when it fails. IDK if that is the reason, but just relaying it. With that said I have accounted for the head gasket in the price (apx $2000, including the timing belt and the water pump - since their in their anyway). If you do that that are fine cars, a bit weak in the auto tranny, but who isn’t these days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-affordable-used-sedans-other-than-honda-and-toyota/830328.md?page=3)