# Are there any reliable indicators of an individual's IQ during their infancy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 19, 2013, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248 "2013-11-19T09:48:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/1 "2013-11-19T09:48:58Z")
Hi, Are there any reliable indicators of an individual’s IQ during their infancy? What is a strong indicator, if there is one, that the infant will mature into a “genius”. Is environment a large determining factor? If Einstein’s environment had been different, would he have emerged as a towering genius? I look forward to your feedback davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/2 "2013-11-19T10:11:40Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/3 "2013-11-19T10:37:34Z")
Greetings, Enclosed in this post you will find my feedback. I hope you enjoy. Currently I am unaware of any indicators at birth that will predict higher than average IQ. Obviously if your baby is healthy and doesn’t suffer from any known congenital deffects then he’s on track for being at least average, if not above. Sincerely, drewtwo99 ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/4 "2013-11-19T13:04:53Z")
You asked about the right tail of the curve, but there is evidence that [low Apgar scores in infants](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17916594/)predicts low IQ. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/5 "2013-11-19T13:13:51Z")
Well, in my experience being my granddaughter is a pretty reliable indicator. Of high IQ, of cuteness,… ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/6 "2013-11-19T14:12:05Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Is environment a large determining factor? If Einstein’s environment had been different, would he have emerged as a towering genius? The old nature versus nurture argument. From what I read, you need to pick your parents well to have a high IQ. Environment can then add some, but even subtract more for IQ scores. For example lock a kid in a closest for 15 years then give them an IQ test. Probably not even going to score average if both parents were geniuses. Of course that’s an extreme example. I have a nephew who was extremely smart as a child. He figure out how to climb up a dresser by pulling out each drawer a little to make a ladder at 18 months old plus a lot of other things. He didn’t take an IQ test back then. He graduated second in his class at Ohio State as a chemical engineer. Smart guy but if he got involved in drugs; with the wrong crowd; played video games 24/7, things could have worked out differently. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/7 "2013-11-20T07:51:47Z")
Genius and IQ have very little to do with one another. The title of genius is essentially an accolade awarded after the fact to people who make important intellectual breakthroughs (in the sciences, the arts, or whatever). The vast majority of people with very high IQs never do any such thing, and although they are unlikely to be stupid, I know of no evidence that geniuses tend to have extraordinarily high IQs, although some of them may. (Of course, most geniuses, over the course of history, never had their IQs measured.) ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/8 "2013-11-21T16:56:02Z")
I’m inclined to agree with you njtt. Thank you all fro your helpful comment. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/9 "2013-11-21T17:08:18Z")
Not only could you not tell with Einstein anything about his intelligence as a baby, I wonder when you’d have known even into adulthood. Given that he was working as a patent clerk and not showered with scholarships and research grants, I suspect the recognition came pretty late in life. Also, I don’t want to slight Einstein in the slightest, but his theory of relativity came along at just the time in history when it could have come along. In other words, people were doing experiments on the speed of light, discovering things about the atomic structure, etc. that Einstein depended on for his own work. An Einstein working 40 years earlier would not have had the body of work to rely on; an Einstein 40 years later would have been reading about relativity in a textbook. He was a genius to put together the necessary pieces, but I don’t think he was so unique or superior that someone else wouldn’t have made the same breakthrough within a few decades of when Einstein did it. This is a long way of agreeing with the idea that “genius” is basically a title we give to people who have achieved something important. Our assumption of intelligence is almost after-the-fact. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/10 "2013-11-21T17:23:22Z")
You know how you put your finger in the hand of a newborn, so they can grab onto it in that way babies instinctively do? When I did that with Celtling, only minutes old, her eyes still closed, she gently began exploring it with both her hands, feeling along trying to figure it out. I knew immediately this was going to be a challenge! LOL! ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/11 "2013-11-21T17:33:26Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Genius and IQ have very little to do with one another. The title of genius is essentially an accolade awarded after the fact to people who make important intellectual breakthroughs (in the sciences, the arts, or whatever). The vast majority of people with very high IQs never do any such thing, and although they are unlikely to be stupid, I know of no evidence that geniuses tend to have extraordinarily high IQs, although some of them may. (Of course, most geniuses, over the course of history, never had their IQs measured.) Has there ever been a study of the IQs of recognized “geniuses”? (It’s a real question, not rhetorical.) What is the average IQ of a Nobel Prize winner? Of leading classical musicians, etc.? I came across [this here](http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx) survey of IQs of various professions, and there really aren’t many surprises. Occupations you would expect to have higher IQs (e.g., doctors and professors) have a higher average IQ than occupations you would expect to have lower IQs (e.g., janitors). But of course using the standard of “important intellectual breakthroughs”, we’re talking about a tiny segment of medicine/professors/what-have-you. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/12 "2013-11-21T19:31:14Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Not only could you not tell with Einstein anything about his intelligence as a baby, I wonder when you’d have known even into adulthood. Given that he was working as a patent clerk and not showered with scholarships and research grants, I suspect the recognition came pretty late in life. > > Also, I don’t want to slight Einstein in the slightest, but his theory of relativity came along at just the time in history when it could have come along. In other words, people were doing experiments on the speed of light, discovering things about the atomic structure, etc. that Einstein depended on for his own work. An Einstein working 40 years earlier would not have had the body of work to rely on; an Einstein 40 years later would have been reading about relativity in a textbook. He was a genius to put together the necessary pieces, but I don’t think he was so unique or superior that someone else wouldn’t have made the same breakthrough within a few decades of when Einstein did it. > > This is a long way of agreeing with the idea that “genius” is basically a title we give to people who have achieved something important. Our assumption of intelligence is almost after-the-fact. I think that the title of genius is something that can only be conferred by a man’s peers. I confess that my own understanding of relativity is both tenuous and fleeting. I am ill equipped to judge how great a leap of understanding developing that theory took. I would think, however, that beating out your peers by “a few decades” would be the very definition of genius. I remember reading when I was a child about Newton discovering gravity and thinking “Well, duh” (I did not really think that, I thought whatever the equivalent was in the 50’s). It was not until much later in life that I was able to even begin to appreciate the subtlety of his discovery (and only by reading what his peers and heirs had to say about it). ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/13 "2013-11-21T22:19:56Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Not only could you not tell with Einstein anything about his intelligence as a baby, I wonder when you’d have known even into adulthood. Given that he was working as a patent clerk and not showered with scholarships and research grants, I suspect the recognition came pretty late in life. Not so. > **[EINSTEIN REVEALED AS BRILLIANT IN YOUTH (Published 1984)](https://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/14/science/einstein-revealed-as-brilliant-in-youth.html)** > [@](#): > > CONTRARY to a popular legend that has given comfort to countless slow starters, young Albert Einstein was remarkably gifted in mathematics, algebra and physics, academic records recently acquired from Swiss archives show. > > **The records, contained in a collection of the great theorist’s papers now being prepared for publication at Princeton, confirm that Einstein was a child prodigy, conversant in college physics before he was 11 years old, a ‘‘brilliant’’ violin player who got high marks in Latin and Greek.** But his inability to master French was the bane of his school days, and may have been chiefly responsible for his failing college entrance examinations. > > The documents ‘‘place Einstein in the context of his times much more than in the past, providing details of his education in Germany and Switzerland and his more human contacts,’’ said Dr. John Stachel, editor of the papers. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/14 "2013-11-22T01:42:10Z")
Einstein was neither a tremendous child prodigy who far surpassed other children of his age nor someone who appeared to be a little slow as a child. He was someone who was clearly very smart. He was extremely good in some subjects and not so good in others. Could you have said that he was obviously going to do well in some academic field? Yes. Could you have said that he would certainly revolutionize physics? No. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/15 "2013-11-22T03:16:35Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi, > Are there any reliable indicators of an individual’s IQ during their infancy? What is a strong indicator, if there is one, that the infant will mature into a “genius”. Is environment a large determining factor? As far as predictors of IQ from infancy … depending on your definition of “reliable” [perhaps](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9050399) [yes.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496290/) > [@](#): > > A longitudinal study investigated the relation between infant expectations and reaction time (RT) and childhood IQ and RT. Measures of visual anticipation and visual RT were taken at 3.5 months and 4 years of age. In addition, manual RT and verbal and performance IQ were measured at 4 years of age. Infant visual RT correlated reliably with childhood visual RT, and infant performance correlated significantly with childhood IQ. > [@](#): > > Data from a large sample of children (N = 131) were obtained at five different time points (7, 12, 24, 36 months, and 11 years) for a large battery of tasks representing four cognitive domains (attention, processing speed, memory, and representational competence). Structural equation models of continuity were assessed for each domain, in which it was assumed that infant abilities → toddler abilities → 11-year abilities. Abilities at each age were represented by latent variables, which minimize task-specific variance and measurement error. The model for each domain fit the data. Moreover, abilities from the three age periods predicted global outcome, with infant, toddler, and contemporaneous 11-year measures, respectively, accounting for 12.3%, 18.5%, and 45.2% of the variance in 11-year IQ. So at least some of the variance in later childhood IQ is predictable from early childhood performance on items like reaction time. As far as “genius” … I agree that above average intelligence is requisite but so are other factors like persistence, tenacity, creativity, critical thinking skills, so on. Many of those are learned and of cultural origin to no small degree. ---
**Author:** ![lollymotionless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ab097/32.png) [@lollymotionless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lollymotionless)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/16 "2013-11-22T03:21:45Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi, > Are there any reliable indicators of an individual’s IQ during their infancy? What is a strong indicator, if there is one, that the infant will mature into a “genius”. Is environment a large determining factor? If Einstein’s environment had been different, would he have emerged as a towering genius? > I look forward to your feedback > davidmich In my opinion: 1. I think none. 2. There’s none. 3. I think not. 4. I think so yes. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/17 "2013-11-22T03:40:13Z")
Yeah look at their parents. ---
**Author:** ![kaltkalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@kaltkalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaltkalt)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/18 "2013-11-22T03:42:47Z")
That’s what i was gonna say - the only indicator (and it’s a loose one) is the intelligence of the parents. But it’s not like smart babies kick at the womb more than dumb babies. Statistically speaking, a baby will grow up to be average. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/19 "2013-11-22T03:48:30Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Yeah look at their parents. And correct for regression to the mean. I found [this](http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/01/regression-toward-mean-and-iq.html) to be a pretty interesting read on the subject. Can’t speak to its veracity because I’m not an academic on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-reliable-indicators-of-an-individuals-iq-during-their-infancy/674248/20 "2013-11-22T04:08:38Z")
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