# Are there any restraints on people with dual citizenship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2017, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057 "2017-05-07T08:25:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/21 "2017-05-08T09:50:42Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Hadn’t seen this - usually the agent will look at me with two passports in my hand, roll their eyes, and sort it out. As you say, international travel really isn’t set up for dual citizens. Really? I’ve never had an issue with my children. It’s so matter of fact that that they don’t bat an eye. It’s really no big deal on remembering which passport to use. As others have said, one of the biggest pain in the ass aspect is the increased difficulty in getting bank accounts. The kids are too young to file taxes but there will be that. We figured it was worth it in case China gets overly enthusiastic about taking over Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/22 "2017-05-08T10:33:49Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Traveling between your two countries can be a mental challenge. Traveling between Aus and the USA, you must travel on one passport, must leave Aus on your Aus passport, and must enter the USA on your USA passport - mutually incompatible requirements which are not fully enforced. I don’t normally declare my Aus citizenship. I don’t lie, if a question asks if I am a citizen of Australia I say “yes”, but the question is more like “Nationality as shown on passport” in which case the answer is “New Zealand” because I don’t have an Australian passport and travel on my NZ passport. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/23 "2017-05-08T12:09:40Z")
The mention of the travel between US and Australia reminds me of something that happened to someone I knew. He spent the year 1964-65 with his family in the US. During the year a daughter was born. He got her passports, both US and Australian. When he was on his way to Australia he had to give up his temporary residence permit at check in. That was probably his mistake, but he was simply being a good citizen. The agent noticed that there was one more person than permits and asked why. The father explained that she was born during the year. "Oh, in that case, she needs a US passport. He showed it to the agent. “Oh, but this doesn’t have an Australian visa; I can’t let you board.” So he showed the agent the Australian passport. “So where is her US residence permit?” “She doesn’t have one; she was born in the US.” “But then she needs an Australian visa.” Repeat for an hour until the flight was closing. Finally, the agent threw up his/her hands and let them on. Of course there was no problem when they arrived in Australia. Note that this was no an immigration offices, just an especially stupid airline agent. Although that is probably redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/24 "2017-05-08T12:10:13Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Traveling between your two countries can be a mental challenge. Traveling between Aus and the USA, you must travel on one passport, must leave Aus on your Aus passport, and must enter the USA on your USA passport - mutually incompatible requirements which are not fully enforced. I’ve never had any issues travelling between Australia & NZ using only my Australian passport - the last time I was there, there was an option on the immigration form to say “I’m a New Zealander using a Foreign Passport”. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/25 "2017-05-08T13:08:46Z")
Since the OP asked, getting a US security clearance is very difficult for holders of dual citizenship. It is a very frustrating process and not always successful. IF you succeed in getting your application form accepted and a clearance is deemed in the national interest, at a minimum you will have to go to the local security officer and destroy your other passport before their very eyes. And finding a security officer willing to take the responsibility of witnessing this isn’t always easy. As has already been mentioned up thread, some countries do not recognize renouncing citizenship. Israel has been mentioned, Italy I believe is another. The US Government is not comfortable with that since anyone can destroy one passport, then go to a consulate and get another. They sometimes require letters to be written by the applicant to the other country, but as one can imagine, they aren’t really that effective. Dual citizens can get clearances when the Government feels strongly that it is in the Governments best interest (the only criterion used for all clearances BTW), but it isn’t easy. Naturalized US citizens are better off, but they have issues as well. Mostly because the background checks and family ties can get difficult. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/26 "2017-05-08T17:31:17Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Spain doesn’t have limitations along the lines of “can’t hold some offices or jobs”, but requires reciprocity in order to accept the dual citizenship itself: if Duckistan doesn’t accept dual citizenship, period, or requires Spaniards to renounce Spanish citizenship in order to become Duckistanis, then Spain doesn’t allow Duckistanis to become Spaniards without renouncing Duckistany citizenship. > > One of the countries in such a situation is the UK, so we have people who right now can hold local elected office but who won’t be able to keep it after Brexit is wrapped up unless they switch, as they won’t be “citizens of the EU” any more and can’t become Spaniards without renouncing UK citizenship. I was under the impression that one could NOT renounce UK citizenship, i.e. any renunciation was meaningless and did nothing regarding citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/27 "2017-05-08T17:37:53Z")
It’s mot meaningless, but you cannot renounce what used to be called right of abode. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/28 "2017-05-08T19:28:05Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Isn’t that confusing two different issues? The mutual rights accruing to EU citizens (voting and standing for office in local and EU Parliament - but not national parliaments) aren’t the same as whether or not you could have dual UK/Spanish nationality. The UK doesn’t forbid dual nationality, and on what you say, Spain in that case wouldn’t. They ban it for the specific case of Spain, at least according to the local reports. Lots of Brit expats wouldn’t be able to get Spanish nationality due to not speaking Spanish, but that’s a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/29 "2017-05-08T23:37:50Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > In Australia, a dual citizen cannot be a member of the federal Parliament, so that two recent prime ministers (Abbott and Gillard) would have needed to renounce their British citizenship {they were both born in the U.K.). The other limitation in Australia (as in the rest of the world) would be that a dual citizen could not seek assistance from the embassy/consulate of their other country. Sue v Hill was an Australian court case decided in the High Court of Australia on 23 June 1999. The High Court also ruled that dual citizenship on its own will not be enough to disqualify someone under s 44(i). At paragraph 176, the High Court makes the point that a person must take reasonable steps to renounce their non-Australian citizenship. If renunciation is not possible, for example by either the laws of the foreign power not permitting it or the process being unreasonable, then the person will not be disqualified by operation of s 44(i). This means that they just have to give up their passport and make a statement to the UK. They can apply again anytime as the UK passport is available to them by birth. There was a passporter campaign against Abbott - they required Abbott to prove he did not have a UK passport. DID NOT HAVE… hmm. Do you just hand it into the british embassy and ask them to keep it for the time being ? The High court Sue vs Hill decision should really have said it that mere citizenship, eg passport, was not an issue that could be tested, and that renounciation of birth right citizenship was redundant, as anyone with the birth right can just take it up again any time. The result that Hill lost may be because she didn’t argue about the archaic nature of this… Back in 1901, renouncing of a foregin citizenship was required to become an Australian citizen, and it was meant to be permanent… So they didn’t write out in full what to do about dual citizenship… ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/30 "2017-05-09T00:07:13Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > Since the OP asked, > getting a US security clearance is very difficult for holders of dual citizenship. It is a very frustrating process and not always successful. I wonder if this would still be the case for countries which are close allies? Would a US-Australian dual citizen still have problems getting a US security clearance? Or for example would a UK-Australian dual citizen have that problem? it would seem to me that the “five eyes” countries eg Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States already co-operate so much in intelligence and have basically shared goals in most cases. Is that taken into account? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/31 "2017-05-09T00:55:49Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I was under the impression that one could NOT renounce UK citizenship, i.e. any renunciation was meaningless and did nothing regarding citizenship. Nope. [All categories of British nationality can be renounced by making the appopriate declaration to the UK authorities](https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/overview), provided you already have or are going to acquire the nationality of some other country. What is meaningless is a declaration made to a foreign government renouncing British nationality. That has no effect at all. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/32 "2017-05-09T02:39:46Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I have UK / Australia dual citizenship and I’ve never ever had this be a problem. I’ve travelled many times back and forth, left Australia on the Australian passport, entered the UK (or Europe) on the UK passport, rinse and repeat. s. I’ve never had a problem wiht it either. But I got explicit instruction from a US Consul that I couldn’t do that. He didn’t offer any valid suggesitons, and I didn’t pursue the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/33 "2017-05-09T02:48:00Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Of course there was no problem when they arrived in Australia. Note that this was no an immigration offices, just an especially stupid airline agent. Although that is probably redundant. A friend once made the mistake of traveling Aus-\>NZ on an expired passport. NZ didn’t care/ didn’t notice. The airline didn’t notice. But on the way back, NZ-\>Aus, the airline noticed and objected (Aus has more restrictive entrence requirements()… My friend, who hadn’t noticed either, has limited sympathy for this kind of thing. He told them that he didn’t care, and that they could deport him back to Aus if they wanted… …They eventually let him on the flight. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/34 "2017-05-09T05:01:18Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I’ve never had a problem wiht it either. But I got explicit instruction from a US Consul that I couldn’t do that. He didn’t offer any valid suggesitons, and I didn’t pursue the matter. Really? Bad advice from the person because this is quite common. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/35 "2017-05-09T11:54:29Z")
Suppose you’re a dual citizen of two countries who are at war with each other. Would joining the army of one constitute treason against the other? ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/36 "2017-05-09T13:21:10Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I have dual citizenship since my parents were born in the UK. It never occurred to me that it mattered, I never even applied for a UK passport until I was in my 30’s. Visiting Britain, there was an express line for citizens, but I skipped it because my wife wasn’t a citizen. You are nicer than I. My wife and I have been going through separate lines but at least I have collected all the baggage by the time she gets through. However, on our most recent trip the passport control official told her that she could have come through the UK line with me, so we will try that next time. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/37 "2017-05-09T15:30:29Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Suppose you’re a dual citizen of two countries who are at war with each other. Would joining the army of one constitute treason against the other? The bar is lower than that—have a look at the internment camps of WWII, and the general effect on Americans who held (or whose parents or grandparents held) Japanese, Italian, or German citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/38 "2017-05-10T02:39:28Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Really? Bad advice from the person because this is quite common. I didn’t say it was uncommon. I said that it is against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/39 "2017-05-10T03:09:06Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I didn’t say it was uncommon. I said that it is against the rules. This is GQ so I’m going to ask for a cite on what law is being broken. I believe the consul was simply mistaken. For people who have dual citizenships when travelling between both countries using one to leave and the other one to enter is the only logical and practical way to do it. Anyway, the US has no legal authority over what Passport you present to the immigration officer of another sovereign state which you are a citizen of. So again, the consul was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057/40 "2017-05-10T06:13:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Suppose you’re a dual citizen of two countries who are at war with each other. Would joining the army of one constitute treason against the other? [It would in the USA.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawakita_v._United_States) Although I don’t know how likely it would be that an ordinary soldier would be prosecuted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-restraints-on-people-with-dual-citizenship/786057.md?page=3)