# Are there any solutions to resolving the conflict between Sunnis and Shiites? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630 "2013-04-24T23:28:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/1 "2013-04-24T23:28:42Z")
They have been fighting for over 1300 years. It’s about time they get over themselves, no? Is there anything that can be done about this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/2 "2013-04-24T23:32:23Z")
The same thing that works with Catholics and Protestants; have them take their religion less seriously. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/3 "2013-04-24T23:55:36Z")
I have a radical idea that just might work. I think the US government, and all friendly governments and allies, should just pick one side and declare it correct, and say the other side is wrong. We don’t need proof or logic, not like their conflict is rational anyways. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/4 "2013-04-25T02:06:25Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > They have been fighting for over 1300 years. > > It’s about time they get over themselves, no? > > Is there anything that can be done about this issue? People have been fighting about lots of things for several thousand years longer than that. What’s special about the Sunni-Shiite split? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The same thing that works with Catholics and Protestants; have them take their religion less seriously. Catholics and Protestants started taking their religion less seriously at the Peace of Westphalia? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/5 "2013-04-25T02:15:47Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > We don’t need proof or logic, not like their conflict is rational anyways. What makes you think “their conflict” is somehow not “rational” as compared to the conflict between different ethnic groups in other countries? I’ve never heard anyone proposing that the solution to South Africa would be for the powers of the world to arbitrarily declare either “black South Africans” or “Afrikaners” to be “the winner” and then that be that. Similarly, I never heard anyone make such an argument regarding the conflict between the Croatians, Serbians and Bosnian Muslims of the late 1990s. I could understand if the conflict was over different interpretations of theology, but it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/6 "2013-04-25T02:17:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The same thing that works with Catholics and Protestants; have them take their religion less seriously. Would WWII not have happened if the British and the Germans “taken their religion less seriously”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/7 "2013-04-25T02:19:05Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Catholics and Protestants started taking their religion less seriously at the Peace of Westphalia? Seriously? Catholics and Protestants stopped fighting then? They most certainly _didn’t_. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/8 "2013-04-25T02:29:43Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What makes you think “their conflict” is somehow not “rational” as compared to the conflict between different ethnic groups in other countries? Never said anything about other conflicts ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/9 "2013-04-25T02:41:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Catholics and Protestants stopped fighting then? They most certainly _didn’t_. They most certainly _did_ stop having conflicts that could in any way be explained by their religious differences. ETA: I don’t mean to suggest that Sunni and Shiites are massively different from Catholics and Protestants in that regard — as **Ibn Warraq** points out, the difference between the two is essentially the same as an ethnic signifier. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/10 "2013-04-25T03:06:39Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > They most certainly _did_ stop having conflicts that could in any way be explained by their religious differences. They did no such thing. The only religious difference necessary to create conflict has been that one group is called Catholic, and the other Protestant. And that’s not even counting all the various bizarre accusations they’ve made up about each other over the centuries to demonize each other. My Irish aunt used to tell stories of all the accusations they hurled at each other (the only time I hear an Irish accent from her is if she imitates her childhood self by reciting the words “Dirty Protestant!”) ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/11 "2013-04-25T03:17:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They did no such thing. The only religious difference necessary to create conflict has been that one group is called Catholic, and the other Protestant. And that’s not even counting all the various bizarre accusations they’ve made up about each other over the centuries to demonize each other. My Irish aunt used to tell stories of all the accusations they hurled at each other (the only time I hear an Irish accent from her is if she imitates her childhood self by reciting the words “Dirty Protestant!”) I’m sure we’ve gone over this on the Dope a few hundred times by now, but given how many of the people pushing for Irish independence were actively irreligious, how few (possibly none whatsoever, but I’m no Irish historian) of the disputes between the parties were about their religious differences, and that the origins of the conflict between Ireland and England predates the Reformation by a healthy margin, describing the conflict in Ireland as a religious conflict is just silly. And in fact, elsewhere in Europe the boundaries between Protestant and Catholic did not see any exceptional levels of civil conflict. …which, by the way, is completely a propos to the OP, because roughly the same observation applies to Sunni and Shiite. In a given country, the disputes between the two groups that give rise to conflict often have nothing whatsoever to do with their religious difference. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/12 "2013-04-25T03:28:10Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I’m sure we’ve gone over this on the Dope a few hundred times by now, but given how many of the people pushing for Irish independence were actively irreligious, how few (possibly none whatsoever, but I’m no Irish historian) of the disputes between the parties were about their religious differences, and that the origins of the conflict between Ireland and England predates the Reformation by a healthy margin, describing the conflict in Ireland as a religious conflict is just silly. It certainly was in part. And the problem is all over not just in Ireland; there’s been plenty of Catholic/Protestant conflict here in America too for example. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/13 "2013-04-25T03:29:02Z")
Put the Jews in control (for real, I mean). They’ll fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/14 "2013-04-25T03:35:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > not just in Ireland. The conflict in Northern Ireland is no more a religious conflict than the fighting between the Kurds and the Turks or the Croatians and the Serbians. > [@](#): > > there’s been plenty of Catholic/Protestant conflict here in America too for example. There has been? Define conflict and tell me when there’s been Catholics slaughtering Protestants in the US or vice versa without going back two centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/15 "2013-04-25T03:41:30Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Never said anything about other conflicts I know, but you claimed that it would be best if world leaders looked over the situation and arbitrarily decided who the victor was. Presumably you feel the same about the conflict between the Bosnian Muslims and the Serbs and the Afrikaners and South African blacks. If you feel otherwise perhaps you could enlighten us by explaining why you have such intellectually inconsistent views. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/16 "2013-04-25T03:45:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The only religious difference necessary to create conflict has been that one group is called Catholic, and the other Protestant. Really, that’s the only difference? One side being the indigenous population while the other side being the descendants of settlers wasn’t necessary for the conflict. With all due respect, you clearly know nothing of the conflict. Next you’re going to argue that the only reason Koreans and Japanese hate each other is because most Koreans are Protestants while most Japanese aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/17 "2013-04-25T07:16:01Z")
Ibn Warraq’s right. Most tension in the United States between Catholics and Protestants has usually actually been based on ethnicity. In the early days, the Protestants were the English and the Catholics were the French or Spanish. In later times, the Protestants were the established Americans and the Catholics were the immigrants from Ireland or Italy or Poland or Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/18 "2013-04-25T15:47:39Z")
We just need an international injunction on all religious leadership. All preachers, mullahs, bishops, rabbis, lamas, etc must be imprisoned. Let Rick Warren share a cell with Ali Khamenei, with no opportunity to issue public statements or private directives. People should have the basic right to practice any given religion, but not to use it in any other way. And all those religious structures would convert nicely to homeless shelters. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/19 "2013-04-25T16:40:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I know, but you claimed that it would be best if world leaders looked over the situation and arbitrarily decided who the victor was. > > Presumably you feel the same about the conflict between the Bosnian Muslims and the Serbs and the Afrikaners and South African blacks. > > If you feel otherwise perhaps you could enlighten us by explaining why you have such intellectually inconsistent views. Well you would presume wrong 😉 The topic was to address solutions. I make no claim that mine is the best solution, or the fastest. It is simply A solution. One that, I think, hasn’t been tried before by the US and would be fun to see what happens ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630/20 "2013-04-25T16:55:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Ibn Warraq’s right. Most tension in the United States between Catholics and Protestants has usually actually been based on ethnicity. That’s how it is between Sunnis and Shi’ites. After enough generations, a religious identity can **become** an ethnic identity. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-solutions-to-resolving-the-conflict-between-sunnis-and-shiites/656630.md?page=2)