# Are there any statistics on Moderate muslims ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 13, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882 "2017-06-13T18:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/21 "2017-06-15T20:23:37Z")
If we do manage to find some stats, they would only make sense in context compared to other beliefs. For example, it might sound totally outrageous if 9% of Muslims believe that suicide bombers deserve sympathy, until you compare it to another survey saying 9% of Christians believe that communion wafers LITERALLY turn into the flesh of Jesus, or 9% of Americans believe the moon landing was a hoax, or 9% of college graduates believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, et cetera. That’s my $0.02 ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/22 "2017-06-15T20:25:33Z")
Late correction, the Iraqi debate was about Islam as ‘a’ or ‘the’ fundamental source of legislation per the constitution. It wasn’t about adopting Sharia as ‘the’ legal system. But my basic point is that ‘a’ v ‘the’, at least as it’s rendered in English, became a major sticking point, so I don’t think the ‘the’ can just be excluded in interpreting the answers to the Pew poll. Of course people don’t always fully listen to poll questions, answer the question they want to answer, etc. Still. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/23 "2017-06-15T20:36:20Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > If we do manage to find some stats, they would only make sense in context compared to other beliefs. > > For example, it might sound totally outrageous if 9% of Muslims believe that suicide bombers deserve sympathy, until you compare it to another survey saying 9% of Christians believe that communion wafers LITERALLY turn into the flesh of Jesus, or 9% of Americans believe the moon landing was a hoax, or 9% of college graduates believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, et cetera. > > That’s my $0.02 If 9% of ‘some religion we’ve never heard of No 1’ had sympathy with suicide bombers generally of that religion (let’s say the great majority of recent suicide bombers were from SRWNHO1, though in theory the respondents could be thinking of the relatively rare, or long ago, suicide bombers from other religions), you’d find that no more disturbing than 9% of ‘SRWNHO2’ which had beliefs of no direct\* influence on other peoples’ lives you found absurd? I find that hard to believe. \*you could start in on how it indirectly influences your life that some people are so inferior to you in understanding of the world or even things unseen. Still hard to believe that if you put PC and anti-Christian animus aside you’d really put belief in transubstantiation and suicide bombing on the same footing as a threat to society. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/24 "2017-06-16T07:35:56Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > \*Western Christians and anti-Christians can argue all day long whether Western liberalism including the legal system is an outgrowth or rebellion against Christianity…because the relationship is genuinely ambiguous. That relationship is not ‘just like’ anything about Sharia’s role in Islamic societies as of now. The most one could reasonably do is look for a closer parallel in Christianity v legal systems in ‘its’ societies centuries ago, a common but almost always practically useless discussion. No, they can not honestly argue about cause and effect. Anybody who Looks at history of Western Europe can see one trajectory: from theocracy (of the Christian type) in the Medieval Ages, restricting rights based on religious ideas (not based on the Bible, but on one specific Interpretation of the Bible that was useful for the People in power) towards more freedom and secularity in laws - and only because People fought for it: the Jews who were marginalized, later the Humanists who fought for states making laws based on humanistic = secular principles. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/25 "2017-06-16T07:44:14Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > And it would be extremely troubling to me if Muslims who live in my country answered ‘yes’ to that Pew question, though I don’t think a large % would. It’s only troubling if you compare it to the large number of Christians, esp. Evangelicals, in the US who would answer “Yes” to the question of Bible-based law, and who are activly spending a lot of Money and influence to Change the laws (see: abortion, see: discrimination against LGBT, see: Loopholes on abuse reporting for clergy…) > [@](#): > > I think the large % of positive answers in Muslim countries is a problem for them, though as I said it’s whole different issue what outsiders could ever do about that without it being counterproductive. Show them a working Democracy - not a kleptocracy - and help them get a working govt. that is neither corrupt nor oppressive (good luck with that, since most of the past US interventions, whether stealth CIA or open warfare, were only with regards to US interests, not on how creating a win-win Situation for both sides). > [@](#): > > Note I’m not saying ‘moderate’ is absolutely defined, I don’t see how it could be. Moderate would be “non-Extremist” = everybody who answers “I only want to live in peace, I don’t want to blow others up, but I don’t want to bombed by a drone either, and stop selling weapons to our oppressive govt.” Getting hung up on Sharia law, given the wide-spread meaning, is not useful on getting a realistic Picture of the Situation, and therefore make better informed decisions on how to help the People improve their lives. Neither is asking People about extremism or terrorism, given that “Terrorist” has become the new “communist”: every authocrat govt. can Label their Opposition “terrorists” and get Money and weapons and aid from the US for the War on Terror, without looking in Detail what methods the govt. uses, or what the Opposition is against, and what methods they use. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/26 "2017-06-16T07:50:18Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > If 9% of ‘some religion we’ve never heard of No 1’ had sympathy with suicide bombers generally of that religion (let’s say the great majority of recent suicide bombers were from SRWNHO1, though in theory the respondents could be thinking of the relatively rare, or long ago, suicide bombers from other religions), you’d find that no more disturbing than 9% of ‘SRWNHO2’ which had beliefs of no direct\* influence on other peoples’ lives you found absurd? I find that hard to believe. > > \*you could start in on how it indirectly influences your life that some people are so inferior to you in understanding of the world or even things unseen. Still hard to believe that if you put PC and anti-Christian animus aside you’d really put belief in transubstantiation and suicide bombing on the same footing as a threat to society. No, it means that 9% or some similar number of Population is off their gourd, no matter which Country, culture or belief System. See the many White mentally unstable (cultural at least Christian) men in the US that went on mass Shootings in the past few years. What exactly they were garbling and what conspiracy theories they were mixing up in their heads didn’t matter much, they knew that the govt. was Controlling them via mind rays / that Hillary was child trafficking with a Pizza parlor / that blacks were planning a race war / … So belief in Alien conspiracies or Lizards beneath the masks gives an indicator on how many crazies are running around needing mental health. Even the Norwegians couldn’t stop Breivik - but they could deal with it.A 100 years ago, anarchism was the case en vouge worth bombing places for; in the 60s it was racism, Vietnam and communism, now it’s IS to make a martyr out of a lost angry man. 30 years onward, it will be a different cause. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/27 "2017-06-16T08:28:43Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I think in GB, in some areas Sharia law is allowed in civil cases - not the chopping-hands variety, but the approach of “mediation first for private problems like divorce or arguments” because it’s not just cheaper on the people and easier on the court system to resolve petty arguments outside court, Until only some years ago, in the then French oversea territory of Mayotte (Indian Ocean), civil and family cases could be heard by a cadi ruling according to sharia law . Mayotte isn’t particularly known for Muslim extremism. Being in favour of Sharia law doesn’t mean much without a lot more detail about what the person has in mind exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/28 "2017-06-16T10:09:53Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > . But I think it’s very debatable if that’s what a lot of ‘yes’ answers in those polls actually mean. Since the idea of the sharia can vary greatly even in the native context, what is debatable is to load the ambigious poll question with any kind of the conclusions about any deep thinking behind it. A high percentage may only be the morality signaling becuase the person thinks saying that signals they want a less corrupt better juridical system, or it mi The wordings of some poll questions about Sharia are vague, surely.one I linked, by a pretty well respect international polling org Pew, presented the results as yes to “the official law in your country”. [/QUOTE] Pew is indeed respect, but whatever the reading the question can cover much ground. > [@](#): > > I recall that what was translated to English as a debate between Sharia being ‘a’ source and ‘the’ source of the law in the new Iraqi constitution was a major political debate there. So that distinction isn’t apparently just an artifact of translation. The simple interpretation of the Pew poll answer is that Sharia would be ‘the’ system, not the arguable inspiration for a liberal secular legal system\*, and not just a parallel voluntary mediation system for civil/family matters. The troubled and now highly sectarian divided country of the Iraq is not an excellent way to understand the different meanings people can attach to the idea of Shariah or what they actually want. However, you set up a false contrast between a liberal western system with “voluntary” whatever and other potential meanings in the context of the developing world. For the region most of the systems are indeed secular law, based on the Egyptian interpretation of the Code Civil, with slight touches. To say in the Iraq that the Sharia should be the source of legislation - if this is an actual fact - is to say the secular law system should have its laws drawing from the (a) Sharia. It is not the same as the direct application of the (a) Sharia. > [@](#): > > Therefore that poll answer _IMO_ shows a broad tendency in many of those countries to illiberalism and immoderation. Illiberalism is one thing. Religious modreation another thing. Since you are mixing two different things, and ignoring multiple other factors, I do not think there is a basis of understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882/29 "2017-06-16T11:49:59Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > If we do manage to find some stats, they would only make sense in context compared to other beliefs. > > For example, it might sound totally outrageous if 9% of Muslims believe that suicide bombers deserve sympathy, until you compare it to another survey saying 9% of Christians believe that communion wafers LITERALLY turn into the flesh of Jesus, or 9% of Americans believe the moon landing was a hoax, or 9% of college graduates believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, et cetera. > > That’s my $0.02 I would assume and expect that vastly more than 9% of Christians believe that communion wafers do _literally_, in some sense, turn into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. The Real Presence is a core dogma of the Roman Catholic, Orthodox and (in a somewhat different form) Lutheran churches, and most though not all Anglicans as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-statistics-on-moderate-muslims/788882.md?page=1)