# Are there any universal constants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914 "2015-02-05T19:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/21 "2015-02-07T17:26:02Z")
Death and taxes. Death doesn’t get worse every time Congress meets, however, I have it on good authority that he is a competent, but boring, chess player. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/22 "2015-02-07T18:40:28Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > … and Euler’s constant, gamma, have to be what [and is] irrational (I believe gamma is). If rational the denominator must be huge. AFAICT this is established just by calculating gamma (with CF arithmetic?) to some huge precision. > [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > If you want the Integers, the only number you need is One. All the others flow from there. Nitpick. I think you’ll need a Zero. Simplest is to incorporate set theory and define 0 = Ø. Now you get One etc. for free using von Neumann’s invention: 1 = {Ø} . ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/23 "2015-02-07T23:30:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Nitpick. I think you’ll need a Zero. Simplest is to incorporate set theory and define 0 = Ø. Now you get One etc. for free using von Neumann’s invention: 1 = {Ø} . You need a starting place, whatever you may call it. And you need a successor function. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/24 "2015-02-08T00:08:38Z")
Then there is the additional snag that even something like the statement that the fine structure constant alpha = 1/137 is somewhat context dependent. As **Chronos** has said above, it’s otherwise certainly a nice clean dimensionless constant by any standards. But, in practice, it _runs_. Quite what the relevant equivalent is at any particular energy scale actually varies by quite a bit, thanks to the technicalities of quantum field theory. Defining some alpha(E) as describing this behaviour, the universal statement is actually more along the lines of saying alpha(0) = 1/137. In other words, what elementary descriptions treat as universal constants, turn out to be more subtle in practice. This doesn’t immediately apply to _c_. Though I’d be willing to bet that something similar does kick in any actual quantum theory of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Rich\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/25 "2015-02-08T20:17:30Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > We might at first think of all the universal constants there are such as the speed of light, mass of a proton etc. A recent articles proposes that the speed of light does change in a vacuum and didn’t light move faster when the universe was younger anyway? > Is there anything out there that is in fact an undisputed constant? This question actually is related to my philosophy class (I am the teacher) and the arguments of Heraclitus and Parmenides. > > Thanks for your help. > > PS. If anyone is so inclined, do concepts such as 1+1=2 count as universals? Actually, in a marriage 1+1 can = 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. depending on how many children they have. So from that perspective 1+1 is not always 2. As far as constants, yes. The promises of our Creator show us a variety of constants. Jeremiah 33:19 And the word of Yahweh came to Yirmeyahu, saying, 20 "Thus said Yahweh, 'If you could break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there be not day and night in their season, 21 then My covenant could also be broken with Dawid My servant - so that he shall not have a son to reign upon his throne - and with the Lewites, the priests, My attendants. 22 ‘As the host of the skies is not counted, nor the sand of the sea measured, so I increase the descendants of Dawid My servant and the Lewites who attend upon Me.’ " So we see here that “day” and “night” are constantly in their season. Now the seasons vary based upon what part of the world one is in - but day and night is constant in their season as it states here. Here is another constant - the earth is round and hangs on nothing: Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. Here we see the Creator shows us long before Columbus did that the world hangs on nothing - is in space essentially. This is constant. John 12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always. And Yahushua the Anointed (Christ) taught us that we will always have the poor among us - so having the poor among us is another constant. Also if I am programming and I assign variable “X” as a constant variable and never again modify that code, then that variable within that one module of code will constantly be at that value (unless there comes a time it ceases to exist). And also, Jeremiah 31:35 Thus said Yahweh, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar - Yahweh of hosts is His Name: 36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares Yahweh, “then the seed of Yisra’el shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.” This reminds us how the Bible teaches the constant of the tide waves of the waters coming in as it relates to the moon. The position of the moon in relation to the earth affects the waves and the tide. We can learn that this is a constant relationship from the Bible in these verses. We also see another constant are the laws of our Creator which have not yet vanished from before Him. There are others, but those are a few examples of constants. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/26 "2015-02-09T23:04:10Z")
OK, so what is the numerical value of a law of the Creator, and in what units? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/27 "2015-02-10T04:26:16Z")
Apparently the English spellings of David and Levites aren’t among the universal constants, though. What translation is that from? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/28 "2015-02-10T16:40:21Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > Also, didn’t light travel faster inthe early universe? The universe is expanding: in the past it was more dense than it is today. Not simply the galaxies, gaseous nebulae, and dust clouds “clumped together” more closely, but space (and time?) more compressed. Can Spacetime…as a medium…influence the value of measurements of constants depending on density? Spacetime qualities such as the permittivity and permeability of space? [https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;\_ylt=A0LEVjZTM9pUrCoA2fcnnIlQ;\_ylu=X3oDMTEzdmxkMGExBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwMV8x?qid=20090430104426AAfFrXY](https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVjZTM9pUrCoA2fcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEzdmxkMGExBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwMV8x?qid=20090430104426AAfFrXY) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914/29 "2015-02-10T21:17:51Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > I was listening to Penrose’s interview on Science Friday and he had something interesting to say. His point was that the early universe may have been extremely low in density - thereby macro properties such as temperature may have different meaning. I did not quite understand everything he said, but the jist of it was that there could be communication between before and after the big bang. > > He also explained how time could be faster (sort of like how time slows down near black holes) in such an environment. > > I am not a Physicist - so feel free to correct my understanding. Was this the interview? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-universal-constants/711914.md?page=1)