# Are There Any Ways In Which Europeans Are More 'Backward' Than Americans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250 "2006-11-06T03:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/121 "2006-11-07T21:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] Do those on UK-dominated boards post messages lamenting the quality of plumbing and climate control compared to the US? “The hot water lasted forever in the shower, the house stayed at a comfy 71 degrees, and the windows were double-pane with no drafts! Why can’t the UK be more like that?” [/QUOTE] The wishful thinking isn’t necessarily concentrated on America. It might be about Italian food, or Swiss railways, or German lager, or Australian beaches. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/122 "2006-11-07T22:02:47Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Jones] In Italy “French style” toilets are still common, more so then here, but are they more backward ? I remember one company I worked at in Northern Italy you were presented with a choice in the Ladies - one “western style” cubicle, one “French toilet” plus bidet ! Different isn’t necessarily backward. [/quote] No, but some different kinds of toilets, like the Turkish toilets that are just a hole in the ground, are backward. > [@](#): > > I could be wrong but I’m getting a strange feeling from this thread … millions of Americans love to visit Europe for our traditions, history - especially the thrill of walking through “living history” buildings and roads hundreds of years old, seeing a member of the Royal family etc. yet .. you wouldn’t actually want to have to live with them yourselves ? Of course! I’d much rather live in a new house than a historic house any day- new houses are more likely to have things like air conditioning and better wiring and plumbing that make daily life now so much nicer than daily life then. But I’m not going to travel thousands of miles to see a new house- I go to Europe to see the old buildings. And, of course, while something like universal health coverage may make Europe a nice place to live, it’s not much of a tourist draw- I really hope not to have to deal with medical professionals at all on any of my vacations. I wouldn’t mind living under a constitutional monarchy, though- I don’t really think it would be all that different than living in the US on a day-to-day basis. Royal scandals are more interesting than regular political scandals, too, because it’s much harder to get royals to step down than it is to get regular politicians to do so- the royals can get away with more, so they do more interesting stuff. No, the real reason I would rather stay in California than live in the British Isles is the weather (I hate rain), and the fact that I’d have to learn how to drive all over again. I’d choose Canada, Australia, or New Zealand over other countries in Europe to live in, just because I already speak the language. > [@Nava](#): > > In European rich countries with sunny weather, dryers are seen as energy drains, so not very popular. See, in the US, three types of people use clotheslines instead of dryers, regardless of local climate: [ul] [li]Hippies or environmentalists who are willing to make _much_ bigger sacrifices than the rest of us to save energy[/li][li]People who are too poor to buy and operate a dryer[/li][li]Old people who are too set in their ways to get used to using a dryer instead of a clothesline[/li][/ul] Almost all of us would say that the latter two are backward, and the hippies who refuse to use dryers are weird and backward. So we definitely get a “backward” vibe when we see clotheslines in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/123 "2006-11-07T22:07:29Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] So we definitely get a “backward” vibe when we see clotheslines in Europe. [/QUOTE] This is definitely a cultural difference - here, images of clotheslines full of gleaming white items is an advertising cliche. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/124 "2006-11-07T22:17:51Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I’d have to learn how to drive all over again. [/quote] Believe me, it actually only takes a couple of hours! My family and I switch back and forth over the Atlantic (and continental Europe) all the time. > [@](#): > > So we definitely get a “backward” vibe when we see clotheslines in Europe. I think that’s merely a matter of perception. I have a dryer, but using it on a sunny day seems crazy - there’s free energy outside for about an extra three minutes’ inconvenience (and the washing smells nicer too). Someone running a dryer when they have a warm, dry garden seems silly to me, though “backward” is perhaps too perjorative a term. As for choosing the UK’s weather over that of California, I got nothing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/125 "2006-11-07T22:20:27Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] As for choosing the UK’s weather over that of California, I got nothing. 🙂 [/QUOTE] “Every day, hot and sunny…” ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/126 "2006-11-07T22:29:13Z")
I learned during the rolling blackouts in California that a lot of homeowners’ associations and cities here in the US have rules against using clotheslines, because we think it looks backwards. [QUOTE=jjimm] Believe me, it actually only takes a couple of hours! My family and I switch back and forth over the Atlantic (and continental Europe) all the time. [/quote] I think it would take me longer- I’m one of those people for whom “right” and “left” are not immediately intuitively obvious concepts. > [@GorillaMan](#): > > “Every day, hot and sunny…” I wish! I’d live in the [Atacama Desert](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4437153.stm), some parts of which have never had a single drop of rain recorded by humans, if I could (and if that wouldn’t make my commute way too long). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/127 "2006-11-07T22:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I wish! I’d live in the [Atacama Desert](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4437153.stm), some parts of which have never had a single drop of rain recorded by humans, if I could (and if that wouldn’t make my commute way too long). [/QUOTE] Heh heh, anybody who knows the quote knows the followup insult 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/128 "2006-11-07T23:01:02Z")
Interesting discussion. I think that part of this issue is that “backwards” is just such an ugly term. Couldn’t we just use “retarded” instead? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/129 "2006-11-07T23:03:05Z")
I know an awful lot of Americans that see clothesline use as basic common sense. (Then there’s my mother, who thinks that putting jeans in the dryer is a mortal sin.) I know other Americans who, faced with a power shortage, will buy a $600 gas dryer to replace the electric one instead of spending $30 on a clothesline. Let’s just say that there is a diversity of opinion on clotheslines in the US (and, funnily enough **GorillaMan** , a line full of white washing blowing in the breeze on a sunny day is an advertising cliche here, too). ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/130 "2006-11-07T23:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] See, in the US, three types of people use clotheslines instead of dryers, regardless of local climate: [ul] [li]Hippies or environmentalists who are willing to make _much_ bigger sacrifices than the rest of us to save energy[/li][li]People who are too poor to buy and operate a dryer[/li][li]Old people who are too set in their ways to get used to using a dryer instead of a clothesline[/li][/ul] Almost all of us would say that the latter two are backward, and the hippies who refuse to use dryers are weird and backward. So we definitely get a “backward” vibe when we see clotheslines in Europe. [/QUOTE] Gosh, that is a cultural difference. I happily put my clothes on the line. Why pay for/waste electricity when the sun will do it for free? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/131 "2006-11-07T23:16:57Z")
[QUOTE=Jayrot] I think that part of this issue is that “backwards” is just such an ugly term. Couldn’t we just use “retarded” instead? [/QUOTE] I prefer “eurotarded” myself. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/132 "2006-11-07T23:28:12Z")
[QUOTE=tschild] It’s Chilean sparkling wine, or something to that effect - when designations like champagne, bordeaux, feta, sherry, grappa, ouzo and Nürnberger Bratwürste are applied to products made outside the proper region it’s considered fraudulent mislabeling. [/QUOTE] I believe the European standard on regional products is the correct one. When we make “champagne” in California, or “parmesan” cheese in Wisconsin, we are showing disrespect to the places that have the right to use those words. Similarly, I believe anyone making “Philly cheesesteak” sandwiches more than 50 miles from Philadelphia should call them something else. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/133 "2006-11-07T23:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Jones] I could be wrong but I’m getting a strange feeling from this thread … millions of Americans love to visit Europe for our traditions, history - especially the thrill of walking through “living history” buildings and roads hundreds of years old, seeing a member of the Royal family etc. yet .. you wouldn’t actually want to have to live with them yourselves ? [/QUOTE] [This poem](http://www.potw.org/archive/potw308.html), written back in 1909, still sums up that attitude quite nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/134 "2006-11-07T23:47:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sternvogel] [This poem](http://www.potw.org/archive/potw308.html), written back in 1909, still sums up that attitude quite nicely. [/QUOTE] That’s a nice poem, and very true. People are mostly most comfortable with where they’ve been brought up. “The West” is all kinds of ways just different expressions of the same culture, for good or ill. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/135 "2006-11-08T01:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] Gosh, that is a cultural difference. I happily put my clothes on the line. Why pay for/waste electricity when the sun will do it for free? [/QUOTE] I’ve tried it in the past, but it doesn’t work that well in a desert. Plenty of sun, sure, but too much dirt easily flying around. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/136 "2006-11-08T03:22:49Z")
America has the best damn gun culture in the world. (Switzerland is a close second place.) ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/137 "2006-11-08T08:47:08Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] “Every day, hot and sunny…” [/QUOTE] How incredibly boring that must be. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/138 "2006-11-08T11:18:13Z")
[QUOTE=Sternvogel] [This poem](http://www.potw.org/archive/potw308.html), written back in 1909, still sums up that attitude quite nicely. [/QUOTE] That’s all nice, but it was written by some Dyke. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/139 "2006-11-08T11:25:57Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] I believe the European standard on regional products is the correct one. When we make “champagne” in California, or “parmesan” cheese in Wisconsin, we are showing disrespect to the places that have the right to use those words. Similarly, I believe anyone making “Philly cheesesteak” sandwiches more than 50 miles from Philadelphia should call them something else. [/QUOTE] Pepito con queso, in Spain. And I agree with you. **Cat** , that’s a very common feeling. Mom loved Prague - but wouldn’t ever think of living outside Spain. In Spanish we even have a special term for a certain kind of migrant: “hacer las Américas” (lit. “to do the Americas”). It refers to people who migrate for economic reasons but go back home once they’ve made enough money or retired. Examples would include from Nobel prize winner Severo Ochoa to the thousands of Eastern Europeans who spend about five years in Spain and then go back home to start their own business. Dr. Ochoa wasn’t even present for his own retirement dinner: he was already on a plane to Spain! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250/140 "2006-11-08T11:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Crafter\_Man] America has the best damn gun culture in the world. (Switzerland is a close second place.) [/QUOTE] Pshaww! Switzerland all the way, man. A legally required automatic weapon in every home? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-europeans-are-more-backward-than-americans/379250.md?page=8)