# Are there any ways in which the past really was better? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340 "2012-07-25T15:15:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/122 "2012-07-27T23:04:04Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > The following post is full of speculation, because I wasn’t alive at the time, but things I think were better in the past: > > 1. Lifestyle expectations were more realistic. … > > 2. People were more superficially polite to each other. … > > 3. People dressed better, and appropriately for functions. I don’t think black leather tube tops to a funeral. I agree with you on a lot of this, but I suspect that people have been bitching about storage space since about five seconds after they harvested the first corn crop. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/123 "2012-07-27T23:07:44Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > 1. People dressed better, and appropriately for functions. I don’t think black leather tube tops to a funeral. Definitely. I especially wish top hats and monocles were back in fashion. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/124 "2012-07-27T23:15:28Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > The following post is full of speculation, because I wasn’t alive at the time, but things I think were better in the past: > > 1. Lifestyle expectations were more realistic. I like watching home shows when people are house hunting - inevitably a 1950s bungalow will be featured and the house hunters will bitch about the tiny closets, to which the real estate agent replies - well, lifestyles were different back then. I think having a lifestyle where a small closet could hold your nice, but reasonably sized wardrobe of a couple of skirts and blouses, a nice going out dress and peddle pushers for the weekend would be kind of nice. I’m saying this as someone who’s wardrobe is a living, breathing mass of hugeness that threatens to take over my whole condo at any moment. I agree. The fact that consumer goods were more expensive doesn’t detract from the fact that people lived more simply and still managed to be happy. I think simple living has numerous benefits. > [@](#): > > 1. People dressed better, and appropriately for functions. I don’t think black leather tube tops to a funeral. Right. I like the fact that people don’t dress up all the time like they used to, but I also appreciate that more limited choices in clothing means people put more thought into what they look like. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/125 "2012-07-27T23:17:39Z")
I just wanted to post something my grandmother told me, forty years ago when I was still a teenager. She said she didn’t believe in the concept of “The good old days” and that friends and relatives were the main thing she missed from when she was growing up. Grandma was born December 17th, 1904, one year to the day after the Wright brothers flew at Kitty Hawk. She told me she likes air conditioning, indoor bathrooms, modern medicine, indoor bathrooms, refrigerators and freezers, indoor bathrooms, and washing machines. And did we mention indoor bathrooms? About modern medicine, that’s why we still _ **have** _ my grandmother, at 107 years and 7 months of age. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/126 "2012-07-27T23:40:00Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Yeah, but like I said you aren’t going into those things blind. For random average person looking into stuff on the net that they don’t have a clue about there is a much greater chance of them getting sucked into the woooooo zone. Heck, back in the day about the only way you got sucked into the woooo is if you came up with it yourself 🙂 The Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory predated the internet, didn’t it? no, never mind, I’m not going to argue there were just as many Conspiracy Theorists in the Good Old Days. I won’t even argue that the relative ratio of Useful Information to Idiocy is the same. But I WILL argue that accessing the information you need is much easier now. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/127 "2012-07-27T23:45:48Z")
> [@j666](#): > > The Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory predated the internet, didn’t it? no, never mind, I’m not going to argue there were just as many Conspiracy Theorists in the Good Old Days. I won’t even argue that the relative ratio of Useful Information to Idiocy is the same. But I WILL argue that accessing the information you need is much easier now. Or going further back Charles Chiniquy: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles\_Chiniquy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chiniquy) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/128 "2012-07-28T00:12:02Z")
> [@j666](#): > > . But I WILL argue that accessing the information you need is much easier now. Uhhh, did I say it wasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/129 "2012-07-28T00:42:29Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Uhhh, did I say it wasn’t? Okay, you’ve lost me. I thought you were disagreeing with me about something. I thought of another one - pumpernickel bread. The stuff in grocery stores these days is too soft. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/130 "2012-07-28T17:03:36Z")
Candy and soft drinks used to have just sugar without high fructose corn syrup. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/131 "2012-07-28T17:26:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Definitely. I especially wish top hats and monocles were back in fashion. ☹ Just hats would be nice. Also suits you could actually move around in. For the past 30+ years they’ve been cut strictly for standing up and sitting down - it saves tailoring and reflects the modern suit’s function as a costume with limited uses. In the 1930s, when labor was cheaper than materials, there were even [sport back suits](http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?46440-Bi-swing-half-belted-suit-jackets), with pleats down the shoulders and back and snug underarms to keep the jacket from flying up. They’re actually quite comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/132 "2012-07-28T17:27:01Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Candy and soft drinks used to have just sugar without high fructose corn syrup. Good point-when soft drinks were sweetened with sucrose (cane sugar) people were slimmer. Is there something about fructose that leads the body to convert it to fat immediately? Morbid obesity was almost unknown in the 1950’s. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/133 "2012-07-28T18:08:34Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Good point-when soft drinks were sweetened with sucrose (cane sugar) people were slimmer. Is there something about fructose that leads the body to convert it to fat immediately? > Morbid obesity was almost unknown in the 1950’s. Well, it doesnt seem so. One study did show that HFCS had a super-low satiety rating, in other words you can drink a lot before feeling “full”. But I remember Mom telling me “Dont drink too much soda, youll spoil your dinner.” …and her being right. After a mere 16oz. But I see my friends today quaff multiple super-big-gulps without hesitation then eat a double bacon-cheeseburger with extra large fries. So, clearly their appetites werent spoiled. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/134 "2012-07-29T03:16:49Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Re: BobLibDem. Sorry for Usenet-style quotes; makes it easier for this post. > > _\> The politics were better. Democrats and Republicans differed on policy, but we all watched the same evening news broadcasts and we all started with the same set of facts._ > > Agree when it comes to consensus between the parties, but there was still a sharp ideological divide between right and left, rural and urban, and North and South. There were conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans. > > _\> Women dressed nicer- it was at one time extremely uncommon to see bare legs and dresses._ > > Opinion. I agree somewhat, but it would be a shame to see a return to 1950s-style modesty. > > _\> Tattoos were something that sailors got._ > > Opinion. I agree, but still opinion. > > \*\> If you wanted to play some baseball, you got on your bike and recruited players. \* > > Probably has something to do with changes in childhood socialization patterns in the 1990s; helicopter parents, more organized activities, the end of free-range parenting due to “stranger danger”, and the like. > > _\> You could go to a game without spending a day’s pay on tickets and parking._ > > True. In a stadium with “character” that was built in 1912, and hadn’t been touched since. Enjoy the “character” and “authenticity” of the view behind one of the several hundred girders that supported the roof. However, you had to spend money on dry cleaning the wool suit, fedora and tie you had to wear to the game. > > _\> If you wanted to talk to a friend, you went to their house or called them._ > > You can still do that, although house visits without notice aren’t as socially acceptable today. > > \*\> The music was better. \* > > Opinion, and survivor bias. We don’t hear much of the crap from the past, except maybe novelty and kitschy adult contemporary songs from the 1970s. Less variety from the era, too, partly because until the late 1950s there was little difference between youth and adult culture. Garage bands got promotion on local TV dance shows, which was kind of neat. > > _\> There were game shows on every network from 9-11._ > > Meh. Not something I’d call “better”. > > _\> There were no infomercials._ > > On the three channels you were able to receive. However, television shows of the era usually had one sponsor, effectively making them infomercials: “The Old Gold Swell Fun Time Hour”, “The Lucky Strike Gee-Whiz Children’s Club”, “The Canadian Club Cavalcade of Cartoons”, etc. All negro-free, because those people knew their place, and it wasn’t in front of a television camera. > > _\> You did your banking without knowing a PIN or a password._ > > You can still do it. > > \*\> There was no designated hitter and no interleague play. \* > > Opinion. > > \> Hockey teams were only located in places that gave a shit about hockey. > > Six cities for the NHL. The “Original Six” era was considered one of the most boring for hockey. Great players, but just dull. A lot of hockey-mad cities that could support a professional franchise had to settle for WHL or International League teams. > > \> You could graduate from high school, walk into a factory and have a well paying job with a pension and be able to put your kids through college. > > True, but that era only had a short timeframe - roughly 1945 to 1975. My Dad talked about how recruiters from area factories would set up in front of schools towards the end of the school year. > > \> There were no Kardashians. > > There were other celebrities that people obsessed over. Celebrity worship is nothing new. > > \> When you went camping, you pitched a tent and hiked and swam. You didn’t pull up an RV and hunker down inside with a DVD. > > You can still do that. No cite, but I think tents and backpacks outsell RVs by a wide margin. I am not sure what you mean when you write “opinion” after several of the ways in which BobLibDem suggested that things were better in the past. This is the “In My Humble Opinion” board isn’t it? And the fact that some things from the past are still possible does not make things better today if the cost of maintaining the original method is being unnecessarily passed on to those who do not want to change because the entity that controls the changes prefers to make more money rather than maintain personal contact with customers et al. Also I am still waiting for a response to why you chose my suggestion that music concerts were cheaper to address your completely off topic response on page two. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/135 "2012-07-30T16:47:54Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > And, I would note that people speak to of England and the United States when they speak of the ravages of the industrial revolution. I don’t dispute that local air pollution and deforestation were terrible, but what was the environment like in Africa, South America, SE Asia? I have literally no idea, but I expect the environment is worse now than then, in general. Pollution in Pittsburgh in the 1860s or Beijing now can’t be dismissed as a local thing, though. Pollution has this nasty habit of not staying where it is created. The ozone hole in the Antarctic was not created by CFC use in Antarctica, it was contributed to by CFC use all over the world. Pollution can keep causing environmental consequences years after the cause of the pollution is gone, too. If we’re still experiencing the consequences of past environmental damage, does it really make sense to say the past was better in terms of the environment? They just hadn’t experienced all the consequences of what they were doing yet. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/136 "2012-07-30T17:29:11Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Nature was more unspoiled. > > The air was cleaner. > > Advertising was minimal. > > Fewer dangerous chemicals in the environment. > > (I would also prefer the modern age for all its problems. Health care, human rights and standard of living where I live is leaps and bounds above what it was even a generation ago. I disagree with some of this. I remember the 70’s as being far…dirtier…than today. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/137 "2012-07-30T19:38:00Z")
A revealing story is from my mother, who moved into my father’s boyhood home in 1947, the same year the farmhouse got both indoor plumbing and electricity. Prior to that they used kerosene for lighting (and used a coal-fired furnace). They were all so excited on the day the electricity was connected and could hardly wait for evening so they could finally turn on the lights. When they did so, their first impression was “It’s so bright! And look at how dirty the walls are!” Some of the things I remember from the 1960s and 1970s were noxious gas and diesel fumes from vehicles, finicky starting cars, and tires that were so unpredictable that you HAD to know how to change a tire by yourself. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/138 "2012-07-30T20:20:12Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Pollution in Pittsburgh in the 1860s or Beijing now can’t be dismissed as a local thing, though. Pollution has this nasty habit of not staying where it is created. The ozone hole in the Antarctic was not created by CFC use in Antarctica, it was contributed to by CFC use all over the world. > > Pollution can keep causing environmental consequences years after the cause of the pollution is gone, too. If we’re still experiencing the consequences of past environmental damage, does it really make sense to say the past was better in terms of the environment? They just hadn’t experienced all the consequences of what they were doing yet. 1. Agreed. As long as you agree that the GLOBAL environment was cleaner in 1860 than today. By that, I mean some sort of average for particulate matter per litre of ambient air or whatever. Same thing with water pollution, toxic chemicals, etc. Per acre/per litre of water/per whatever, the WORLD was a cleaner place ON AVERAGE. Again, I am willing to concede that some local areas in some pollutants may have been dirtier in 1860, but not the global average. 2. That’s a fuzzy concept. How do you seperate the past from the present in regard to what gets credited to last month’s pollution, last year’s pollution, last decade’s pollution? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/139 "2012-07-30T20:28:52Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > Some of the things I remember from the 1960s and 1970s were noxious gas and diesel fumes from vehicles I remember the gas fumes in the early 80’s. I remember that our garage, and other people’s garages, always smelled very strongly of gas fumes. I couldn’t stand to be in there for very long, because the smell bothered me. My garage now does not smell like that. I haven’t smelled that noxious odor in a long time. My parents didn’t run their cars in a closed garage, or anything like that, at least not that I can remember. I suspect the main difference is that their cars then put out more odorous and probably more polluting fumes than mine does now. My car is more fuel-efficient than theirs generally were, but it’s not a hybrid or anything like that. I have heard that the generic store-brand extra virgin olive oil you get at the supermarket or at Costco now is better than any olive oil you could have bought in the US in the late 1980s (unless you were a chef at a very famous and well-connected restaurant, or something like that). In my college dorm in the early and mid 1990s, long distance calls were _expensive_. ISTR it costing around 25 cents a minute. Now I get lots of free minutes on my cell phone that I can use for long distance calls at no extra charge. [Food costs are at historic lows as a percentage of disposable income for Americans.](http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2010/07/03/as-share-of-income-americans-have-the-cheapest-food-in-history-and-cheapest-food-on-the-planet/) This fact alone probably has something to do with the rise in rates of overweight and obesity. When things cost less, people buy and consume more of them. If you eat more food, all else being equal, you’re going to gain weight. This one isn’t an unmixed blessing, not like garages not stinking so bad any more. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/140 "2012-07-30T20:43:31Z")
Regarding air pollution: most are right-the air is MUCH cleaner today. In the 1960’s, my Dad worked in Boston-his office was near a big coal fired electric plant. Th inside of his car was covered in “fly ash”-God knows how much of that stuff he inhaled. The shift to nuclear and natural gas-fired plants has been a big improvement. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340/141 "2012-07-30T20:44:43Z")
Getting the options you wanted on a car used to be simple- go to the dealer, check off the options, wait a few weeks, pick up your car. And there were options galore! You could choose from six different engines in a '68 Camaro. Today there’s one engine per model for most lower to mid-line cars. I’d like to order an American-made car optioned to my specs: manual transmission, air conditioning, and cruise control. I don’t want or need any GPS, super sound system, electric windows or mirrors, or other junk stuck in the car to dazzle the technophiles. Can’t do it any more because options are only sold in stupid packages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-ways-in-which-the-past-really-was-better/629340.md?page=8)