Are there ANY Windows fans out there? (Win8)

In My Humble Opinion
21

The Metro start interface does make sense in the way that you can pin the programs you use the most as a tile. That’s making it fast to locate and most users will only need a couple of them. Do you want to start something else, just type (since Vista), although it’ll take a few clicks more when it’s not in Programs (think “mouse” or “remove programs”). I just wish they would make it easier to add something: rightclick - pin as tile or the like.

I’m not so sure about the full screen Metro apps. I rarely use full screen apps nowadays as all screens are widescreens and content (word, web,…) possibly excluding excel is not, so you just end up with white space on either side.

The integration between Metro and the desktop needs some work as well. The transition between the two is really obtrusive. Metro does need a taskbar as well, now you won’t know what programs are running until you switch to the desktop. This can be as simple as having the ability to pin the leftside task charms. And I hate to see the aero glass go, I really liked that.

Get rid of the lockscreen too, seriously, slide up with your mouse ?

22

Well, I own some Microsoft stock so I am a fan in that sense. :smiley:

As far as their products, the only one I use with any regularity is Outlook while at work and that is maybe three times per day.

23

Am I the only one who saw this thread title and couldn’t decide if the OP was looking for a cooling fan to put in his PC or one to fit in his window?

24

I am a Windows fan, but I learned a long time ago - NEVER upgrade to (or buy new) any version of Windows until they have come out with at least the first service pack. Microsoft apparently has adopted the business model of letting the general public be the last round of testing instead of their QC department (if they even have one).

25

I’m not likely to run out and upgrade the minute it comes out, but I’ve been a Windows programmer for my entire career, and I’m interested in developing phone apps (which look like the next big trent), so I am excited as a I see Windows 8 as my best gateway for developing for Windows Phone, and from there, to Android devices and iPhones. It’ll also be a great excuse to actually spend money on a smartphone. My simple cell phone does everything I need, but it’s getting harder and harder to see everyone else with the up-to-date cool gadgets that I currently can’t justify buying.

26

Enterprise services are a huge concern for Microsoft. The Business division, produces Office, Exchange, Sharepoint, etc posted their greatest sales last year by far, and that’s not the only division that focuses on enterprise markets. Server and tools division, which produces Windows Server, SQL Server, etc, posted sales nearly as high as the Windows division.

Windows 8 is made for enterprise markets, it’s just called Windows Server 2012. You can download the release candidate here. I don’t know many IT professionals who aren’t keeping up on this.

ETA: On reflection, you probably meant the enterprise desktop market, in which case adoption tends to go more slowly, yeah.

To the OP’s point, I find some of the decisions made with Windows 8 mind-boggling. I don’t remotely understand the push to shoehorn a tablet-like interface into a desktop or laptop environment. It’s just not remotely optimal, IMO.

On the server side, I have a bit of excitement. I’m a Linux guy at heart, and the decision to make Server Core installation the default strikes a chord with me. I like the trend toward remote administration, and the increasing prevalence of powershell. Also, NTFS deduplication is nice, and will solve quite a few problems for me.

27

Windows 8 is not Windows. It’s “Metro.” It’s an imitation of iOS just as early Windows was an imitation of Mac. It’s what Microsoft does. And, since it’s Microsoft, it will be severely behind the curve as even that, an iPhone knockoff.

While they’re chasing Apple, the workhorse generalist OS that was Windows may not survive.

28

I get the feeling that they’re banking on the “PC” becoming a thing of the past for most users. I read the other day that smartphones have surpassed desktops and laptops as the most popular form of internet access in China, for instance.

They’ve been positioning the XBox platform as a converged media platform, delivering gaming, video and audio media, internet access from your TV, etc. They’re apparently banking on the increased popularity of mobile platforms with Windows 8. And they’re retaining their enterprise focus as well.

Makes for a mind boggling experience on the desktop and laptop, though.

29

That’s ridiculous. Have you used either one? Aside from both being touch friendly, they’re worlds apart.

Also: Mac copied Xerox.

We’re entering a strange period. The PC has yet to die, but I think the dream of the PC died a long time ago–or more accurately, never happened.

For me, the point of the PC was to democratize computing. And I think you aren’t actually a computer user unless you know how to program, at least in some way. Computers aren’t just tools; they’re meta-tools that can build any other tool, and connect existing tools together in novel ways. The hope, in the beginning, was that everyone could understand computing in this general way.

But most people never got to that point. People can be trained to use word processors or spreadsheets, but few seem to be capable of going further. So the PC mostly acted as a normal tool, like a hammer or oven or truck.

And so it turns out that for most people, a PC is dramatic overkill–what they really want is a specialized appliance. An appliance can only do one or a few things. They are, mostly, sealed–when they fail, they’re replaced or repaired by an expert. When their limitations are hit, then it is simply accepted.

The small minority that needs more than an appliance will still exist, of course. They may end up better off, for some things: all the ways in which user interfaces are broken to pander to ease of use will no longer be necessary with this group. Programs won’t have to hide functionality that confuses grandma.

But it’s a bit sad, because now the rift between the Morlocks and Eloi will only grow further. I worry a bit that the power users will not get as much new blood. My first experience with programming was the Commodore Vic-20, which dumped you at a BASIC interpreter interface when you first booted. I wrote my first program when I was maybe 5. Smartphones and tablets don’t have built-in languages, though, and Apple at least bans any kind of interpreter. A child with just a tablet essentially can’t learn to program.

I don’t know what to do, since the trend seems inexorable. There’s some glimmer of hope in tools such as Arduino and Raspberry Pi that might work as good starting points for further learning. But even then, they often depend on having a PC to start with. When PCs become insufficiently common, there may be no escape for most.

30

I’d be more excited if Microsoft knew what they were doing. It’s like they’ve intentionally designed Metro and the desktop to seem like two different operating systems. This is the exact opposite of how you get people to move to a new paradigm. The Start Screen is just a Desktop with a few features removed and a few features added. Add back those features that were removed, and treat the Start Screen as a desktop. All they need are three things: the ability to change the background, the ability to place tiles in a specific location on the screen, and the ability to not have to have each tile touching another tile. Then put the taskbar on the Start Screen, and you can just call it an advanced desktop with smart tiles.

Their biggest problem, though, is how they replaced the Start Menu. They rightfully figured out that people weren’t using the Start Menu anymore, instead just typing in what they want to start if it’s not immediately available, but they forgot to check why. The reason is that the Start Menu, under Microsoft’s guidance on how to arrange your items, is a complete unorganized mess. Every company gets its own group, instead of grouping programs together. And, if you are like most people, you’re just going to accept the default Start Menu folder. Heck, sometimes the same company will use two different folders for two different products.

And what did they do to replace the Start Menu in Windows 8? You think it’s the Start Screen, right? Wrong. The All Programs is replaced with an All Apps screen that just lists every application on your computer, with headings appearing in random locations to show you what folder they were in. There’s absolutely no move towards making things more organized–instead it’s just as organized as before, but presented in a less organized way.

Instead, what we have is a divided experience. Even the list running applications appear differently, depending on whether you are in Metro or in Desktop. And it’s stupid. The only thing holding them together is that Microsoft occasionally links one to the other–and even that feels more like they didn’t have time to finish a Metro version of their app, rather than an integrated experience.

BTW, did you know they just got through changing their logo from the usual flag to look more like, well, windows? While, at the same time, they are pushing for a windowless environment. You can use that tacked on way to show two apps at a time, but the result is that you have one app taking up a third of the screen, having completely different content than when it’s full screen, while the other app appears as it would fullscreen. And no drag and drop, no interaction between them. It’s really just a fast switching mode. more than anything.

The one good thing I’ve seen is the Store. But that’s being hampered by the lack of development because there’s so much uncertainty on whether Metro is going to go over well. And, despite Microsoft allowing it, no one seems to want to put their old-style Win32/Win64 apps in the store at all.

Oh, one more gripe: the way they handle gestures means it’s really easy in an app to accidentally execute a gesture. Even on touch it just detects the one pixel row or column. The gestures were nice, until I tried playing Fruit Ninja and kept accidentally throwing the app around. And WTF is with the screen occasionally shrinking? What can you do with that?

31

The era of the PC did happen, though. Not universally, no, but in a big way. And now Microsoft, which was a big part of it, is trying to kill it.

In my experience, Windows 7 is less oriented toward ease of customization and user programming than XP, which was in some ways slightly less so than ME. They’ve been moving for years toward a company-mediated interface and away from customization.

Want to search html code in a whole folder? I need a third-party program to do that since XP. Want a command to select multiple files and open them in Photoshop at once? I can’t figure out a way in Win7 to set one. I’m one of those guys in between Morlocks and Eloi. I’ve never been a programming geek, I just liked being able to make Windows do what I wanted it to do, and now it won’t.

If the main customer OS becomes more and more a glorified cable TV box, but with a keyboard, then who exactly is going to run things like Photoshop, or design the websites and games the Eloi are grazing? And in what OS, and on what machine, and with what rate of compatibility with the common [del]user[/del] audience’s toys?

32

That said, if (big if) Microsoft manages to do for touchscreen programming what Windows did for WIMP, and blaze a trail for users to become user-programmers in the new smartphone-heavy environment, this could be a good thing.

We’ll see.

33

I wouldn’t call myself a Windows “fan,” only that all the stuff I want to run, runs on Windows. and Windows hasn’t done much to piss me off. I’ve tried primarily using Linux, but there’s always those “things” which have no workable equivalent in Linux. I’ve tried primarily using a Mac, but there’s always those “things” which have no workable equivalent in OS X.

Now, mobile is another story. I’ve gone from Android to Windows Phone to iPhone.

34

I get accustomed to Windows, late in the lifecycle of a particular version. Then they decide that all the tools I use need to be renamed and moved to a different menu with a different icon. “Oh, yes Accessories/Useful is now under My Systematic Software/Microsoft Enterprise Enhanced Multimedia Management Software Manager. And its icon is an anthropomorphized lightbulb with its thumb up its ass.”

Windows has almost had me, many many times, but they keep fucking it up.

35

98
ME*
XP
Vista*
7
8*

*: avoid at all costs

Windows 8 is designed to repulse people who liked Windows before, while trying to entice Mac users with an inferior version of what they already know and use. Not a good strategy.

36

Yeah, it happened. But it’s a historical blip. It never lived up to the promise for most people.

Apple has spearheaded the efforts here. And they are the worst offenders overall, from the way they curate their app store to their sealed-box hardware. Microsoft and the others are coming along for the ride. I don’t think they really want to kill the PC, but Apple is a half-trillion dollar company. There’s too much momentum to stop now.

Ugh, yeah. Search has gotten progressively worse with each new version of Windows. I recommend Agent Ransack, for what it’s worth.

At least you can still install a third-party search tool. Good luck finding one on your smartphone or tablet.

The fact that you’re looking at HTML code puts you firmly among the Morlocks. Smartphone browsers don’t even have a “view source” option. The Internet is like TV, where you aren’t supposed to know or care about how the media got to you.

That’s what I don’t have an answer to yet. We’ll switch to Linux, maybe. I’d be mostly ok with that, and if more and more power users were pushed over, maybe some of the remaining rough edges would be polished away. But I actually like Windows for the most part and would rather not give it up. I can probably keep using Win7 for close to a decade; after that, who knows.

37

lol. Good one.

PS I am a life-long Windows user and no fan of Macs. But cmon MS couldn’t put out a quality product if their collective lives depended on it. There’s a reason they are notoriously much more prone to viruses/etc than any other OS, and CONSTANTLY bombarding you with “important patches” despite how each new OS that comes out they insist is soooooo secure. Right.

:rolleyes:

38

I forgot to post the point of my organization thing: if the start menu were more organized, it would still be faster than having to switch to the keyboard to type something in. People type in the program name because it’s faster.

BTW, I’m posting from 8 right now. Despite all I said, you do get used to it, as long as you have a Start Menu clone. And you wouldn’t even need that if the Start Screen would automatically have frequently used applications on it. See, I try to say something nice about 8, and I can’t help but find something else to criticize.

39

I agree. Microsoft always puts its products out on the market before they’re really ready.

To me, the release of Windows 8 means it’s probably time to upgrade to Windows 7.

40

I have hated the “start menu” from day 1. Win 3.X was better; have a few actual windows with a given group of apps in each and you can make your own as you go along.