# Are there any world class athletes that are self taught and did not rely on a coach to get them where they are? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 10, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981 "2023-03-10T17:40:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/41 "2023-03-19T21:31:29Z")
If it’s not a world class sport it’s tough to call the top competitors world class athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/42 "2023-03-20T00:31:06Z")
Juan Manuel Fangio, “_El Maestro_”, was self-taught. And definitely world class. He won the World Championship of Drivers five times—a record that stood for 46 years until beaten by Michael Schumacher—with four different teams (Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz, and Maserati). He holds the highest winning percentage in Formula One at 46.15%, winning 24 of 52 Formula One races he entered. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/43 "2023-03-20T00:43:49Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Juan Manuel Fangio, “_El Maestro_”, was self-taught. And definitely world class. And 65 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/44 "2023-03-20T01:12:30Z")
So??? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/45 "2023-03-20T03:20:08Z")
I don’t know anything about F1 history. Was it a world-class sport 65 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/46 "2023-03-20T04:23:33Z")
When Ayrton Senna, Jackie Stewart, and Michael Schumacher say Fangio is among the greatest ever, if not the greatest, then that answers the question ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/47 "2023-03-20T05:04:16Z")
No it doesn’t. Was there extensive coaching infrastructure back in the day that everybody had _except_ Fangio, or were all the drivers pretty much self-taught? It’s kind of tough to google, but the impression I get is that they were pretty much all self-taught back then. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/48 "2023-03-20T05:09:53Z")
That argument can be applied to Jim Thorpe and knock him off of the list. But Fangio is true to the OP: > [@Shalmanese](#): > > So my question is, if you look at something like the olympics, are there notable athletes competing in it that purely just coached themselves and didn’t rely on an outside coach? Fangio coached himself. There were other drivers then who probably coached themselves, but Fangio was the greatest of them. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/49 "2023-03-20T07:45:29Z")
But if coaching isn’t “deeply engrained and ubiquitous in the field” (quoted from the OP), then not being coached isn’t unusual, it’s the norm. The OP is clearly looking for exceptions, not norms. I think Fangio may have been more of a norm than an exception. Exceptional ability, but conventionally self-taught. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/50 "2023-04-04T02:48:47Z")
This made me think of a quote from Lee Trevino: “I’ve never had a coach in my life. When I find one who can beat me, then I’ll listen.” Yes, his prime was decades ago, but in an era where coaches were the norm, Lee managed to win six majors. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981/51 "2023-04-04T22:56:49Z")
And before that he was a Marine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-any-world-class-athletes-that-are-self-taught-and-did-not-rely-on-a-coach-to-get-them-where-they-are/980981.md?page=2)