# Are there atheists who are not really arrogant? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475 "2013-03-31T23:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/181 "2013-04-03T16:13:00Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I would answer with absolutely not. Why do you? Why did you pick [religion]? Do you see doctors or pray it away? Do you pray for field goals? Why worship such a harsh being? Do I deserve an eternity of pain for being a nice non-believer? What if god is really Vishnu? Etc. > > Call that arrogant, but I wasn’t the one who brought it up in conversation, the guard did. I can’t go with that. He’s not some angry in-your-face proslytizer who was trying to force my hand (much). He’s a nice old man who was asking what in his mind was probably everyday conversation. And by engaging him like that, I would have done the exact opposite of what I want, which is NOT engaging him. That’s the choice I wish to exercise here. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/182 "2013-04-03T16:18:47Z")
It seems like a lot of believers think atheists are being arrogant when we have the audacity to point out that we don’t agree with them. The nerve! I used to just clam up when people brought up religion, but if they start the conersation, I’ll give them my thoughts. I guess that makes me arrogant, but I’m not the one who needs to have my magic words on American currency. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/183 "2013-04-03T16:19:49Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Not really. The word agnostic also describes those who believe that it’s not possible to know whether a God exists, which is neither necessarily an apathetic or unreasoned position, nor a sop to people who want to argue with them. Actually you’ve nicely said what agnosticism means - and I’ve read Huxley. For some reason theists think it means someone whose mind is not made up, so a chicken atheist can use it without the stigma that atheism carries (which stems from before we came out and were arrogant at saying we existed.) One either believes in a god or lacks belief in a god. How strongly you hold this belief is immaterial - plenty of believers don’t seem to care very much. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/184 "2013-04-03T16:23:03Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Any type of person can be arrogant, belief or not. But exactly how can atheism ever be considered arrogant? In this country not only do people feel they have a right to their opinions, they feel they have a right not to be corrected when they spout their demonstrably incorrect opinions. And they call people who do correct them arrogant. Much easier than actually figuring out you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/185 "2013-04-03T16:33:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually… I’ve been invited to dinners where they do _exactly_ that - ask the guest to lead the grace, or drag the grace into a long, drawn out screed about getting the unbelievers to see the light. And that’s with them being unaware I’m not Christian (nor am I atheist but I don’t want to digress). > > It makes for a very uncomfortable start to a meal. I simply say, “Grace. Let’s eat.” And then start chowing down. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/186 "2013-04-03T17:13:19Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’d like to ask the non-arrogant atheists in this thread how you might handle this situation. > > I was leaving work on Friday and was passing by the security guard. > > SG: Have a nice weekend. > Me: OK, you too. > SG: Are you going to church this weekend? > Me: I don’t think so. > SG: Why not? > Me: I don’t go to church. > SG: You don’t have a relationship with God? > Me: No. > SG: Why not? > Me: Umm… I, uh… I have to catch my bus. > SG: OK. But I’d like to talk to you about this sometime. > > The reason I hemmed and hawed is because I really didn’t want to get drawn into a conversation about religion with someone who (from past conversations) is pretty devout. And I really did need to catch my bus. > > If he corners me, which I suspect he will do sometime this week, what would you say in my place? > > I think my response might be that it’s a personal matter to me and I don’t like to discuss it. I always say “I won’t deny your faith, but you have to realize that is all that you have. You have no evidence or proof.” Leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/187 "2013-04-03T17:20:59Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I always say “I won’t deny your faith, but you have to realize that is all that you have. You have no evidence or proof.” Leave it at that. Still too confrontational, accusatory, and engaging. What I want to say, in the most polite way, is I’m not having this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/188 "2013-04-03T17:23:25Z")
Given the replies in the ATMB topic, I have changed my mind. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > If so I have not met any of them. To be fair I don’t know many atheists so it’s a small sample. Your subsequent posts both in this topic and in the ATMB topic have seemed to point more towards minor trolling. Please do not start threads like this if you have no interest in coming back to them, because it makes it look more like it’s just trying to fish for reactions. Furthermore, since this topic has spurned some good discussion, I will be leaving it open…however, I’m moving it to the Pit, so that people can express their outrage better if they so wish. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/189 "2013-04-03T17:26:10Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Still too confrontational, accusatory, and engaging. What I want to say, in the most polite way, is I’m not having this conversation. That’s a conversation I couldn’t imagine having in the UK. (At least, not with an out-and-out crazy street person.) Put in such a position, I would simply say “I’m not into religion” and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/190 "2013-04-03T17:33:49Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Really? That just sounds jerkish. Especially when all they are saying is that they hope you have a nice time on December 25th. A person who was raised properly knows that you reply in kind. It isn’t even insincere; you probably hold some slight hope they also have a nice December 25th. They don’t ask about 24 or 25 Dec; why should they care if I have a nice 25 Dec or not? As for their 25 Dec, these people are often strangers (store clerks, &c), so I don’t particularly care if they have a nice day or not. > [@](#): > > The SDMB rule, “Don’t be a jerk,” should be carried over to Real Life, even if the Others don’t always follow it. People usually wish you a merry Christmas because that’s what you that time of year. They don’t want to hear your scholarly discourse on the non-existence of God. They just want to get to a party where the ham has not been cooked to the consistency of shoe leather. I hope they find one and invite me next year. “Scholarly discourse”? What “scholarly discourse”? They say “Have a nice Xmas,” I say “No, thank you.” If they ask why I don’t want one, I say it’s because I’m not a Christian. Usually they then ask if I’m Jewish, and I say “No, atheist.” End of discussion. (Same thing happens at Easter, though not as often.) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/191 "2013-04-03T17:39:18Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Put in such a position, I would simply say “I’m not into religion” and leave it at that. I’ve found that, “I’m not a Christian,” works pretty well too. It’s less namby-pamby than, “I’m not into religion,” (though I’ve said that in the past as well). But at least if you feel self-conscious about outing yourself as an atheist, it’s a truthful foot in the door. Of course, the usual response is usually, “Oh, I didn’t realize you were Jewish,” like those are the only two options. For me, “I’m not into religion,” isn’t quite true. It’s pulling the punch. I hold organized religion in contempt. That’s a little more than, “not being into it.” Edit: Hah. I hadn’t read \*\*SCadian’s \*\*post whilst composing mine. Seems the “funny, you don’t look Jewish,” paradigm isn’t as localized as it seems. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/192 "2013-04-03T17:45:55Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Your subsequent posts both in this topic and in the ATMB topic have seemed to point more towards minor trolling. Yes - as I said in the ATMB thread, **Bijou Drains** is a simple twit. A jerk, by Board standards. I’m sorry I can’t bring the flame as befits a quality Pitting - but he’s kinda not worth the trouble. Just a twit. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/193 "2013-04-03T17:48:49Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > They don’t ask about 24 or 25 Dec; why should they care if I have a nice 25 Dec or not? As for their 25 Dec, these people are often strangers (store clerks, &c), so I don’t particularly care if they have a nice day or not. > > “Scholarly discourse”? What “scholarly discourse”? They say “Have a nice Xmas,” I say “No, thank you.” If they ask why I don’t want one, I say it’s because I’m not a Christian. Usually they then ask if I’m Jewish, and I say “No, atheist.” End of discussion. (Same thing happens at Easter, though not as often.) Oh please. Christmas has become a secular holiday in the US whether you like it or not, and most of those wishing you a Merry Christmas are doing so just to be nice since most people (including many atheists & Jews) in the US celebrate it in some way. But who cares if you’re a jerk to them, they’re only store clerks after all. It’s not like they’re real people. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/194 "2013-04-03T17:56:29Z")
Yeah FUCK store clerks! Those fucking assholes! How fucking dare they say something nice that they were probably told to say by their employer! I wish there was a God and Debil just so they could go rot in hell for ALL ETERNITY!!! ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/195 "2013-04-03T18:04:52Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > SG: Have a nice weekend. > Me: OK, you too. > SG: Are you going to church this weekend? > Me: I don’t think so. > SG: Why not? > Me: I don’t go to church. > SG: You don’t have a relationship with God? > Me: No. > SG: Why not? > Me: Umm… I, uh… I have to catch my bus. > SG: OK. But I’d like to talk to you about this sometime. **tdn** : No. My beliefs are private. The important part, then, is to not even engage after you make that point. Don’t answer when he asks if you’re going to church, and don’t answer anything about your relationship (or lack thereof) with God. Don’t make excuses as if it’s a conversation you should be having - just leave. Ignore him if you have to, but don’t let him bully you into talking about it if you don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/196 "2013-04-03T18:25:03Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Oh please. Christmas has become a secular holiday in the US whether you like it or not, and most of those wishing you a Merry Christmas are doing so just to be nice since most people (including many atheists & Jews) in the US celebrate it in some way. > > But who cares if you’re a jerk to them, they’re only store clerks after all. It’s not like they’re real people. Well, I obligingly go along with dinner prayers ( **A-to the fucking men, y’all**!), express gratitude for promised prayers to relieve illness and impending death (cause I surely deserve a pardon from a head cold while innocent school children perish in a hail of bullets or rotten, cancerous tumors) return holiday greetings (no, \*u \*have a Merry Christ’s birth!), and even claim to belong to a church (Methodist in a neighboring state) so I don’t unkindly tax the tender, delicate sympathies of Christians who gleefully instruct children that a certain fiery, bloody, torturous Hell full of horrors, eternal punishment, and pitchforking, asshumping devilish devils awaits those who masturbate, mix cloths, cut their hair, or doubt that Jesus was the magical half-god, half human masochist who did them all a righteous solid. So you can’t call me arrogant!! Oh, and **bijou** ’s a total shithead. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/197 "2013-04-03T18:29:52Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > But who cares if you’re a jerk to them, they’re only store clerks after all. It’s not like they’re real people. And you derived this from my post … how? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/198 "2013-04-03T18:32:53Z")
In my experience, atheists are arrogant and deservedly so. It takes both moral fortitude and courageousness to go in the face of what 90% of the people believe in and do so while ensnared in the enemy’s schools and culture. Atheists are smarter people, period, and their arrogance is deserved. I’m proud to be an arrogant atheist and so should anyone who becomes an atheist through reasoning and logic. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/199 "2013-04-03T19:05:31Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > And you derived this from my post … how? Well gee, coulda been this: > [@](#): > > these people are often strangers (store clerks, &c), so I don’t particularly care if they have a nice day or not. But it seems I was raised with the idea that “Don’t be a jerk to people” is actually something to follow, a quality too many people are lacking. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/200 "2013-04-03T19:06:45Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > **tdn** : No. My beliefs are private. > > The important part, then, is to not even engage after you make that point. Don’t answer when he asks if you’re going to church, and don’t answer anything about your relationship (or lack thereof) with God. Don’t make excuses as if it’s a conversation you should be having - just leave. Ignore him if you have to, but don’t let him bully you into talking about it if you don’t want to. Best answer so far, thank you. FTR he hasn’t brought it up since. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=11)