# Are there atheists who are not really arrogant? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475 "2013-03-31T23:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/221 "2013-04-03T21:18:33Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’d like to ask the non-arrogant atheists in this thread how you might handle this situation. > > I was leaving work on Friday and was passing by the security guard. > > SG: Have a nice weekend. > Me: OK, you too. > SG: Are you going to church this weekend? > Me: I don’t think so. > SG: Why not? > Me: I don’t go to church. > SG: You don’t have a relationship with God? > Me: No. > SG: Why not? > Me: Umm… I, uh… I have to catch my bus. > SG: OK. But I’d like to talk to you about this sometime. > > The reason I hemmed and hawed is because I really didn’t want to get drawn into a conversation about religion with someone who (from past conversations) is pretty devout. And I really did need to catch my bus. > > If he corners me, which I suspect he will do sometime this week, what would you say in my place? > > I think my response might be that it’s a personal matter to me and I don’t like to discuss it. “No, I’ve already heard that story. I think I’ll go to the movies.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/222 "2013-04-03T21:30:10Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Which Christians don’t believe in the bloody crucifixion and torture of Jesus Christ, which don’t believe in Satan/Hell, and which don’t believe in an all powerful God who occasionally takes cancer from the bones of a believer while frequently allowing innocent kids to suffer and die, and which Christians don’t take convincing children of these confusing terrors as a matter of course? I’ve never heard of such Christians. Not all Christians believe that people are sent to Hell for not believing in God, is my point. There are a number of different denominations and philosophies – not just the fundy assholes. > [@](#): > > What you and other Christians I’m not a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/223 "2013-04-03T21:40:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not all Christians believe that people are sent to Hell for not believing in God, is my point. There are a number of different denominations and philosophies – not just the fundy assholes. > > I’m not a Christian. 45,000 attempts to straddle the middle, avoid making enemies, trying to suck up to both sides and make snark without committing to anything. Shut up, Guin. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/224 "2013-04-03T21:49:41Z")
If you ask me **Alphaboi** , you did the kid a favor. At least somebody tried to talk some sense to him. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/225 "2013-04-03T21:55:40Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > You can be a Christian, or a Jew or a Muslim, almost exclusively by the way you think and the way you behave towards other people, and never let on what your beliefs are, yet so many of them refuse to live in their closets but insist on prosylitizing others. Jews don’t proselytize unless you want to count the Jews for Jesus or the Chabad(who only proselytize to other Jews) and very few Muslims proselytize, even in predominantly Muslim countries. In fact, in many Muslim countries it’s illegal to proselytize even when it’s Muslims proselytizing Christians(though obviously they’re less likely to be prosecuted than proselytizing Christians). For that matter, even amongst Christians, proselytizing outside of Evangelicals, Catholics, Mormons, and some Protestant groups, is not forbidden, but hardly encouraged. For example, I’ve never heard of Eastern Orthodox Christians proselytizing. In fact, in Iran, the complaints about proselytizing tend to come from Armenians pissed off at Evangelicals since the Evangelicals are usually not stupid enough to go after Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/226 "2013-04-03T22:03:30Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Did you read his whole story? He was being harrassed at work, and his workplace was turning a blind eye. After numerous provocations, he answered the questions he was asked honestly. How is that being an asshole? > > Sure, if he answered snidely or sarcastically, or with in a deliberate effort to discomfit the child. Any of that would be consistent with the story, and may have happened. But given only what he says here, I don’t see how he was being an asshole. He maybe should have left out the part about Santa and the Tooth Fairy in front of a little kid who still believed in them. The kid was just parroting what he had been taught and didn’t deserve to have those two fantasies taken from him in such a manner. Otherwise, I have no problem with how he reacted to the provoker. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/227 "2013-04-03T22:06:27Z")
Like that kid is going to get any more fucked up by having the Santa myth torn down. He’s being raised as a religion-mule as it is. Maybe a little early reality will set him on the right path after all. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/228 "2013-04-03T22:10:55Z")
[Why Christians Hate Atheists](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU&list=PL1ACF2CCE9605042B) > [@](#): > > Because I was constantly being told that I’m rejecting God, and I knew that wasn’t true, I decided to research rejection, which made me aware of its effects. My studies took me in a completely unexpected direction. The epiphany (pun intended) was rather shocking. The evidence indicates that the personal god is a manifestation of the ego, which explains a plethora of theistic tendencies, including their typical dislike of atheists, who theists subconsciously perceive to be rejecting a part of themselves. God is Tyler Durden; and the first rule of Jesus Club is you have to talk about Jesus Club. The second rule of Jesus Club is you have to talk about Jesus Club. Thoughts? Personally, I think there’s much truth in the video. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/229 "2013-04-03T22:29:51Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Like that kid is going to get any more fucked up by having the Santa myth torn down. He’s being raised as a religion-mule as it is. The real batshit evangelicals explicitly tell their kids there’s no Santa from an early age. And even go off on people who try to tell them otherwise. They even take the materialism badly and think it draws the focus away from religion over Christmas. I’ve got a couple high school classmates like that, and I pity their children. Let kids be kids, for fuck sake. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/230 "2013-04-03T22:42:17Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > 45,000 attempts to straddle the middle, avoid making enemies, trying to suck up to both sides and make snark without committing to anything. Shut up, Guin. I’m not an atheist, either. Believe it or not, religious != Christian. I’m not the one making everything out to be “black or white, with us or against us, everyone who isn’t me is eeeeeevvvvviiiillll\*”. I’m not the one getting all butt hurt because someone has different beliefs. I don’t like fundies. Period. The OP asked a question. I answered it. You’re a fucking loon. **Ibn Warraq** , Jews for Jesus aren’t actually Jews. It’s a Christian group dedicated to converting Jews. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/231 "2013-04-03T22:44:11Z")
I fail to see how this: > [@SCAdian](#): > > these people are often strangers (store clerks, &c), so I don’t particularly care if they have a nice day or not. can be interpreted as meaning this: > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > they’re only store clerks after all. It’s not like they’re real people. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/232 "2013-04-03T22:47:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That doesn’t always work… > [@Trinopus](#): > > For all of me, you did nothing wrong. However, be wary: I did something similar to a little girl who came to my front door… > > … nothing less than child abuse. > > My feeling is that since you and I both put our responses in proper, neutral language – no snarling, no threats, just a statement of belief/fact – we did nothing wrong. But…brace yourself, as there may be those who will be highly disapproving. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Honestly? I’d say you acted like a complete asshole. And if you can’t understand _why_, I’m not even going to bother explaining it. And here it starts, just as **Trinopus** predicted. Then **Guinastasia** tries (futilely) to soften what she said, as **Trinopus** _also_ predicted: > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t think atheists (or theists) are arrogant. It’s just that the arrogant ones are always the ones you remember. Asshole believers who sic their children on _me_ deserve to deal with the fallout, if they didn’t prepare the kid for rejection. I don’t disillusion my friends’ kids about Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. Or Jesus. When they _prime_ those kids with the _ **expectation** _ that _everyone **knows** _ about it, or will instantly accept it, the instant they hear about it, and anyone who would deny it must be whatever equivalent to ‘is an asshole’ they use for their kids (instead of the ‘A’ word), that’s where I draw the line. You have every right to fill your kids’ heads with ‘visions of sugarplums’, ‘Tooth Fairies’, ‘Santa Claus’, Jesus, the son of YHWH, or whatever else you want. Not my issue (from the legal definition of descent), not my problem. When _you’re_ (the generic ‘you’, here) crying because _I_ didn’t tell your bastard the same thing _you_ told him, about things that are obvious bullshit, it becomes _your_ problem to pick up the wreckage of the beliefs _you_ put in _your_ bastard’s head. Not my problem, fuck-you very much. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/233 "2013-04-03T22:48:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sorry about that-didn’t see the followup post. It’s ok. I figured as much and wasn’t too sad. > [@razncain](#): > > Generally when others share such incredulous stories, they are trying to show how theists show up the atheists as uppity-think-they-know-it-all-types who didn’t know so much after all. > > [Einstein was Jewish] > > Jewish only by tradition, and he started questioning the biblical stories at the age of twelve, IIRC. He recognized other things were important for the Jewish people, the ideal of social justice, the tradition of their forefathers, their accomplishments etc. But the one thing he didn’t profess in was a man of Jewish faith, thinking the Jewish God was simply a superstition. Is the 2nd paragraph an example of the first? To show me up as an uppity know it all who didn’t know so much after all - in this case about Einstein’s religious belief? I don’t really know or care too much either way. I grew up going to church but now I go much less frequently. I’ve been through Sunday School, sermons, youth groups, bible studies, etc. My take on it is - a universal truth should be much easier to grasp and attainable to all mankind than it is. The basic laws of love thy neighbor and the golden rule are all fine but once you get past the generalities it gets way too complicated. Also, the holy-land-centric-ness of the Bible is another huge turn-off. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/234 "2013-04-03T22:52:53Z")
I’m justifiably arrogant about many things, but atheism is just… rational. It would be like being arrogant over one’s knowledge of arithmetic. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/235 "2013-04-03T23:08:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m not the one making everything out to be “black or white, with us or against us, everyone who isn’t me is eeeeeevvvvviiiillll\*”. I’m not the one getting all butt hurt because someone has different beliefs. I don’t like fundies. Period. The OP asked a question. I answered it. You’re a fucking loon. Are ya sure about that, or does your reading comprehension match your resolve? Because I’m pretty clear about not disturbing the delusions of believers in real life, and go along with whatever fairy tale keeps them genial and non-violent. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/236 "2013-04-03T23:16:56Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/237 "2013-04-03T23:19:46Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Are ya sure about that, or does your reading comprehension match your resolve? Because I’m pretty clear about not disturbing the delusions of believers in real life, and go along with whatever fairy tale keeps them genial and non-violent. You could’ve fooled me. I don’t believe that for a second. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/238 "2013-04-04T01:08:28Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I think you are confusing “having/not having” a belief with “caring/not caring” about a belief. These are different axes. No, to have a belief, whether it be a belief in god or a belief that he doesn’t exist, requires effort. The theists are sorta right when they say that atheism is a belief system of its own because atheists have given the topic a solid think and came to a conclusion. Not having a belief, and not caring that you don’t, requires no effort whatsoever. It’s just, “Don’t know; don’t care; pass the ham, please.” > [@](#): > > Further, in significant part you confirm by your post precisely what **Der Trihs** is saying. > … > Agnosticism was a bone you threw to theists to stop them chewing your ass. It was a sop, precisely as **Der Trihs** says. Yeah, and you will notice that I realized that and tried to weasel out of the trap I’d made near the end. 😃 But tossing them a chewed-up bone to shut them up does not require me to abandon my theological principles because, well, I don’t have any and don’t care that I don’t. For me it’s insignificant. They may read more into it, but I don’t really care. And yes, I see the incongruity of me putting any effort whatsoever into describing my lack of a theology, but I’m used to it. After all, I am both an agnostic and a Lutheran, like **Jman**. I’m just not a very good Lutheran. > [@SCAdian](#): > > I fail to see how this: > > can be interpreted as meaning this: Really? Because you sounded like clerks are beneath your notice. I joke about despising everyone else, but I at least make an effort to [del]show[/del] feign some concern for their wellbeing, if only to discourage them from overcharging me, spitting in my food, or videotaping my campaign speeches. It’s just civilized. And smart. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m justifiably arrogant about many things, but atheism is just… rational. It would be like being arrogant over one’s knowledge of arithmetic. And I assume you choose your battles and have learned to not correct people’s addition when it doesn’t affect the amount of change you get. No. Wait. Nobody on this board could resist that. Okay, you wouldn’t correct some Star Wars fan’s use of “parsec” as a unit of time. Nope, not that one either. Okay, I’m at a loss coming up with an example of anything that a proper Doper would not get arrogant, or at least corrective, over, but there must be something. And **Troppus**? You’re just being a dick to **Guin**. You are letting your dislike for her blind you to the good points she’s made. It makes you look childish and petty and reduces the effect of your own good arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/239 "2013-04-04T01:11:48Z")
Well, I’ve _mocked_ people for faulty arithmetic, I’m sure… Typos, too, if they were funny. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/240 "2013-04-04T01:23:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I’ve _mocked_ people for faulty arithmetic, I’m sure… So you think you’re better than them, you arrogant, elitist so-and-so? > [@](#): > > Typos, too, if they were funny. Anything funny that I say is actually a typo, so I hope you’ll be kind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=13)