# Are there atheists who are not really arrogant? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475 "2013-03-31T23:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/261 "2013-04-04T12:39:01Z")
[Quote=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Look at it this way: You are literally making a “Think of the children!” argument. Doesn’t that tell you how fundamentally wrong your argument must be? [/quote] > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. It was a rhetorical question. That’s what it tells most other people. Your “No” just = “I’m clueless.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/262 "2013-04-04T13:05:13Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > It was a rhetorical question. That’s what it tells most other people. Your “No” just = “I’m clueless.” No. It says that you’re ridiculous in your construction of this. It’s a pitched battle with a sworn enemy, and it’s a choice between feeling good about it or standing there and taking it. I mean, seriously. “Sworn enemy?” Shield of a “malevolent user” in an “assault”? you’re so far over the top on this one, you’re showing everyone your ass. And that you’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/263 "2013-04-04T13:42:00Z")
Yeah. And you’re the one who’s using “Think of the children!!” as your battle cry. And you’re the one siding with **Guinnie the Ninny**. You’re showing no self-awareness here. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/264 "2013-04-04T14:25:12Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And **Troppus**? You’re just being a dick to **Guin**. You are letting your dislike for her blind you to the good points she’s made. It makes you look childish and petty and reduces the effect of your own good arguments. “Some Christians don’t believe in Hell” isn’t a good point. There are countless other inexplicable horrors in both the Old and New Testament and in daily life that don’t jibe with a loving god and cause even mature adults serious angst; the very idea that innocent children deserve to be threatened with such bogeymen is appalling. But again: that’s the Christian blindspot. It serves lazy parents well to have a significant, sanctioned, terrifying _Other_ to threaten kids with, and that won’t change anytime soon. Hell, it serves adults to hold tight to a belief in divine justice and eternal life, too. Few people are immune to false hope. Having said that, I would never tell a kid or adult outside of this message board that no evidence for God exists, or equate Christian dieties to fairy tales. The trauma of discovery can be pretty brutal for some people. I wouldn’t inflict it on an adult much less a child who has been indoctrinated since birth. To each his own, until someone attempts to brainwash my child with such terrors. Who knows, in ten or fifteen years I may be back here admitting to exposing someone else’s child to science, history, and other testable evidence that discounts fairy tales. But I hope I can instill the same real life tolerance that I have in my girl and teach her to nod politely when others attempt to convert her. Here, though, on this message board, I’m free to call 'em like I see 'em, and I’ve less respect for cherry pickers than I do for fundies. ---
**Author:** ![MrBerious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MrBerious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrBerious)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/265 "2013-04-04T14:38:51Z")
To be arrogant I think you have to assume you’re better than the object of your arrogance. If anything I envy theists, must be a huge comfort to be sure you get to see your loved ones after you die and live in eternal bliss. For that reason I think proselytizing atheists are kind of dickish by definition. I’ve made a decent effort at religion but just don’t think it’s in me it believe. I’m mostly posting to share this relevant video re: outspoken internet atheists: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKULc8W7lM) (slightly NSFW) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/266 "2013-04-04T15:25:28Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Yeah. And you’re the one who’s using “Think of the children!!” as your battle cry. And you’re the one siding with **Guinnie the Ninny**. You’re showing no self-awareness here. You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/267 "2013-04-04T15:32:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means. If you seriously expect **pseudomoron retard retard** to ever be aware that his ass is hanging out in the breeze, you’re eating green corn, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/268 "2013-04-04T16:00:45Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > If you seriously expect **pseudomoron retard retard** to ever be aware that his ass is hanging out in the breeze, you’re eating green corn, my friend. Take it to the Pit, and stop hijacking this thread with your personal animosity, pelase. Let’s look at this in reverse: I, an atheist, set up shop in a public park, hold up a sign saying “LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY ALL CHRISTIANS ARE FUCKED!!!” (or something equally offensive to your mind, dudn’t much matter as long as you’re deeply offended by the tone and the content) and I have my adorable 8-year-old there to do all the talking and all the explaining. You’re telling me I get a free pass, and I should expect every passerby to interact nicely with my kid hailing strangers, “Hey, mister, let me explain why I think you’re utterly fucked” I have a right to get offended if anyone gives my kid, or me in my kid’s earshot, a hard time? If so, you’re deluded beyond discussion. I am asking to get hassled in that scenario, and having my cute kid with me only compounds my offense. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/269 "2013-04-04T16:10:10Z")
Well, this thread took a turn for the mature. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/270 "2013-04-04T16:18:15Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Take it to the Pit That’s an awesome response to someone claiming that you are completely unaware of what’s going on around you. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/271 "2013-04-04T16:39:13Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > That’s an awesome response to someone claiming that you are completely unaware of what’s going on around you. As I am claiming about **Hentor**. I WILL give you this, though: I didn’t notice that this thread is already in the Pit. Did this begin in the Pit? I didn’t think it had. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/272 "2013-04-04T16:44:12Z")
I know this is the pit, and a thread about religion no less so emotions are bound to run high but just to impart my 3rd party centavos… PRR - Probably taking the incident too personally in lashing out at the kid, but probably not ruining any lives/childhoods either. Malacandra/Hector/Guinea/etc. - Probably taking too much offense on behalf of really a minor incident but has a point that in bullying the kid has no positive endgame except making a child sad. Potentially very sad. The reasonable response would just to be polite, curt, and close the door. If you can’t diffuse that situation without the minimum of tact, then you’re kind of a prickish ass. However, in the grand scheme of things, it’s within tolerance as far as prickish ass behavior goes so really minimum harm, negligible foul. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/273 "2013-04-04T17:04:42Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > As I am claiming about **Hentor**. I WILL give you this, though: I didn’t notice that this thread is already in the Pit. Did this begin in the Pit? I didn’t think it had. It didn’t - but I couldn’t pass that up. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/274 "2013-04-04T17:27:07Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > If so, you’re deluded beyond discussion. I am asking to get hassled in that scenario, and having my cute kid with me only compounds my offense. I’m sure you have some ugly kids. Bring _them_. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/275 "2013-04-04T19:46:44Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The “little kid” is being used as a tool to shield the real, malevolent user of that tool from any kind of meaningful assault. You don’t argue with a little kid, you don’t want to disappoint a little kid, so you have to stand there and take anything your sworn enemy has decided to dish out to you, and listen politely to it because it’s not coming from a grownup, it’s coming from a poor defenseless little kid. > Fuck that. If you want to talk to me in an offensive way to which my natural and reasonable response is “Fuck you. Get out of my fucking face and eat shit and die” but you need to put your little kid between you and me so I feel ashamed to give me natural and reasonable response, then guess what? Your widdle kid is going to have his day ruined, if I’m any good at doing what I do, and I am. And I’m not only going to feel good about it, I’m going to feel doubly good knowing that you and that fucking ninny **Guin** are going “Tut-tut.” Dude, you get that butthurt over some little kid offering you a pamphlet? “Sworn enemy?” WTF? Hint: it’s called picking and choosing your battles. Some of them aren’t worth it. Some lady having her kid witness to me is one of them. YMMV. And I consider it an honor to be called a ninny by the likes of you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/276 "2013-04-04T20:05:28Z")
Hey everbody it’s the PRR Retarded Retard Show!!! He’s here to make sure the dope meets it’s daily quota of retardeness. :retarded smiley: ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/277 "2013-04-04T20:16:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m sure you have some ugly kids. Bring _them_. Sorry, fresh out. Each of my beautiful daughters is more attractive than the other, and they’re a little long in the tooth for posing as my “child” at this point. Wish I coulda helped you out. **Guin** –you don’t have to earn the epithet “ninny” over and over again–you’ve earned “ninny” for life, so no need to tell me that “YMMV” but you’re going to decide which battles I need to fight and to calibrate the outrage, moral or otherwise, I need to feel about each one. if I want to encourage someone to feel free to make an annoying child unhappy, then that’s what I will do, and my only reaction to your disapproval will be to know even more certainly that I have chosen the correct path. I notice no one has anything to say about my example of an atheist parading his child to denigrate Christians, and the treatment that such a child might receive from such Christians. Is it too soon to start boasting about how I’ve shut these idiots up good and proper yet? Maybe I’ll give it a little more time. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/278 "2013-04-04T20:19:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > There are theists whose worldview does not allow for people who don’t believe what they believe. They make it a mission to denigrate, humiliate, objectify, and otherwise minimize the thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs of those whose belief systems don’t jive with theirs. > > They’re arrogant jerks. > > There are atheists whose worldview does not allow for people who don’t believe what they believe. They make it a mission to denigrate, humiliate, objectify, and otherwise minimize the thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs of those whose belief systems don’t jive with theirs. > > They’re also arrogant jerks. > > They are **exactly the same** type of arrogant jerk and exactly as ridiculous to listen to when they prattle on about how they’re saving the world with their perfect and true knowledge. The difference is, the worst thing that arrogant atheists ever do, at least in the context of the USA today, is be jerks. The worst thing that arrogant Christians do is, well, lots of things, starting but certainly not ending with banning gay marriage. And there’s another difference, which is that religion, by its very nature, is an active part of someone’s life. Atheism isn’t. So if someone has the kind of personality where they’re likely to be a pushy jerk, and they’re religious, then they’re very likely to be a pushy jerk about their religion. Atheism, however, is NOT a religion, it’s just the absence of a particular belief. So if an Atheist is the kind of person likely to be a pushy jerk, they’re just as likely to be a pushy jerk about, say, Nascar or Obama or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/279 "2013-04-04T21:05:40Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > In what way is the child actually harmed by this anyway? > > As long as the person expresses their views calmly the fact that the kid cries about it is pretty incidental. I’ve got two myself (5 and 7) they’ll cry at the drop of a hat about me not allowing them enough soy sauce for their rice. > Seems a stretch to suggest that they’ll be traumatised about it. When they get over it (in about five minutes) they’ll be left with some questions to ask themselves and some clarification to seek from the parent. Ultimately they will have exposed to someone who calmly and clearly states that they don’t believe in god, doesn’t think there is a god and equates it alongside santa and the easter bunny ( I agree). Which is a valuable lesson for the little bugger if you ask me. Yeah. Either the woman discourages belief in Santa anyway because he is not the reason for the season, or she can tell the kid that the mean heathen was lying. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/280 "2013-04-04T21:09:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Dude, you get that butthurt over some little kid offering you a pamphlet? “Sworn enemy?” WTF? > > Hint: it’s called picking and choosing your battles. Some of them aren’t worth it. Some lady having her kid witness to me is one of them. YMMV. The first time is coincidence, the third time is enemy action. And this was the third time. Plus, she escalated it by bringing the kid. She should have expected some collateral damage. Do you also object to kids growing up in homophobic households being traumatized by seeing two guys hold hands. Some people say this is a violation of their religious freedom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=15)