# Are there atheists who are not really arrogant? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475 "2013-03-31T23:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/41 "2013-04-01T09:18:53Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > If so I have not met any of them. To be fair I don’t know many atheists so it’s a small sample. There are plenty of us non-arrogant atheists, it’s just we see no great need to associate with common folk like you. (oh, I see Eliahna went there first. Never mind, I’m going there too). ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/42 "2013-04-01T09:36:33Z")
It’s astonishing to me that someone even has the gall to ask this question, given the colossal arrogance of believers to impose thier belief systems on the rest of us. I mean, think about it: most religions are contained within the inner workings of individuals. You can be a Christian, or a Jew or a Muslim, almost exclusively by the way you think and the way you behave towards other people, and never let on what your beliefs are, yet so many of them refuse to live in their closets but insist on prosylitizing others. Atheists, OTOH, do little to no prosylitizing (I’ve been accused here of being a militant atheitst prosylitizer, despite my many affirmations that I don’t believe there’s any purpose to prosylitizing for atheism, and I discourage others from doing it, or even spelling it correctly.) Is there any greater arrogance than going to someone who believes differently from you and trying to convert him to your own beliefs? There are religious organizations that insist that this is part of their core beliefs, and the OP is assuming that “arrogance” is widespread among atheists, who try to convert others rarely-to-never? What arrogance! ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/43 "2013-04-01T10:46:01Z")
I wasn’t feeling arrogant at the start of this thread, but by now I’m feeling quite a bit of pity for my poor American cousins who feel they have to hide away their rationality like it’s a dirty secret. But I don’t know whether that’s ‘atheist arrogance’ or just good old ‘British arrogance’. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/44 "2013-04-01T10:51:16Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Personally, if I were at someone’s house and they wanted to say grace and they bowed their heads, I’d feel pretty rude if I didn’t do it. So what, it’s not gonna kill you to put your head down for a few seconds. I don’t get why some people get so insulted by other people praying near them. It’s not like they’re asking you to convert or lead the prayer or witness. Actually… I’ve been invited to dinners where they do _exactly_ that - ask the guest to lead the grace, or drag the grace into a long, drawn out screed about getting the unbelievers to see the light. And that’s with them being unaware I’m not Christian (nor am I atheist but I don’t want to digress). It makes for a very uncomfortable start to a meal. > [@](#): > > I’ll bet they’ll be okay with not saying grace before dinner. Obviously, you’ve never dealt with that sort. They’ll insist on saying grace regardless of where they are. And insist on _their_ version of grace regardless of the customs and beliefs of their hosts. For the most part I try to avoid these sorts like the plague, but I assure you they’re out there. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/45 "2013-04-01T10:52:48Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > I wasn’t feeling arrogant at the start of this thread, but by now I’m feeling quite a bit of pity for my poor American cousins who feel they have to hide away their rationality like it’s a dirty secret. But I don’t know whether that’s ‘atheist arrogance’ or just good old ‘British arrogance’. Probably atheist, since I’m just as British as you are if not more so, but being a believer I don’t go around arguing that those who don’t think as I do are “irrational” - in fact, I’d probably score at least as high as you on any test of rationality that doesn’t start out by begging the question, but you know, I don’t feel the need to make a noise about it. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/46 "2013-04-01T11:31:41Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Probably atheist, since I’m just as British as you are if not more so, but being a believer I don’t go around arguing that those who don’t think as I do are “irrational” - in fact, I’d probably score at least as high as you on any test of rationality that doesn’t start out by begging the question, but you know, I don’t feel the need to make a noise about it. Not sure why you suspect you might be ‘more British’ than I, unless you took my reference to American ‘cousins’ literally. And I’m surprised that you find suggestions of ‘irrationality’ offensive, as surely ‘faith’ is an imaginative leap rather than a rational conclusion? If we’re talking arrogance I’d refer you to the person claiming to be most British, most rational, ‘saved’ and immortal. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/47 "2013-04-01T11:52:53Z")
The only time I come close to talking about religion is on this board. No one knows my views so I certainly can’t be seen as arrogant. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/48 "2013-04-01T12:40:27Z")
Of course the other group I know who are really full of themselves are Mac users. I remember how they used to tell me how crappy Intel chips were. And then all of a sudden they stopped saying that. Wonder why? Need to find out about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/49 "2013-04-01T12:42:30Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > The asshole atheists are like the asshole christians, they just tend to stand out more. The only difference is, my atheism doesn’t command me to be arrogant about it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/50 "2013-04-01T12:47:26Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Of course the other group I know who are really full of themselves are Mac users. > > I remember how they used to tell me how crappy Intel chips were. And then all of a sudden they stopped saying that. Wonder why? Need to find out about that. In what way were the few atheists you know arrogant? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/51 "2013-04-01T13:21:00Z")
Where are these arrogant atheists I hear so much about? I can turn on the TV any day of the week and see men claiming to actually converse with an all powerful being who personally gives them instructions to pass on to others. When I drive down the rode every day I pass dozens of buildings staffed by other men and women making the same claim. I’m not making this stuff up. THAT is arrogance of the highest order. It would be interesting indeed to meet an atheist who could rise to that level of arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/52 "2013-04-01T15:16:35Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Once, a guy said “The Bird is Cruel” to me, and I covered my face. He said, later, he was _that close_ to kicking me in the nuts.) > > (Relatively obscure sci-fi reference…) Cool! I don’t think I would have remembered the covering-the-face part. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/53 "2013-04-01T15:26:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > If so I have not met any of them. To be fair I don’t know many atheists so it’s a small sample. how does their arrogance manifest itself? What do they do, what do they say, how do they act? ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/54 "2013-04-01T15:31:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Sometimes believers put non-believers in situations that beg for a little assertiveness. Case in point: I attended the family festivities for Easter yesterday, and as we sat down to eat, my Uncle David volunteered me to say the blessing. This despite the fact that they all know I don’t believe (my uncle is a well-known dickcheese). So rather than make a big thing out of it, I just said, “Um…thanks for the food and thanks for letting us all be together on Easter, in Jesus’ name Amen”. I note here that I had just come from attending a church service with my grandmother, a church service which Uncle Dickcheese was unable to make it to, despite living about fifty miles closer than I do. I would also like brownie points for not throwing away a religious tract that I recently encountered in a bathroom stall at a rest stop. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/55 "2013-04-01T15:44:47Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Really? That just sounds jerkish. Especially when all they are saying is that they hope you have a nice time on December 25th. A person who was raised properly knows that you reply in kind. It isn’t even insincere; you probably hold some slight hope they also have a nice December 25th. > > Today, as she always does on Easter, my sister-in-law greeted me with, “Christ is risen!” The correct reply is, “He is risen indeed. Alleluia,” and I gave it. It made her happy because I was polite, and it made me happy both because it made her happy and because it was the passcode to get into the house for Easter dinner, though since my MIL and SILs cannot cook to save their lives there was little payoff. > > The SDMB rule, “Don’t be a jerk,” should be carried over to Real Life, even if the Others don’t always follow it. People usually wish you a merry Christmas because that’s what you that time of year. They don’t want to hear your scholarly discourse on the non-existence of God. They just want to get to a party where the ham has not been cooked to the consistency of shoe leather. I hope they find one and invite me next year. I am not an atheist, nor a Christian, but I do disagree here. What you’re saying is that you should go along with the prevailing culture just to be polite. It’s not being a jerk to refuse to be bullied into participating, even if the bullying is a good-natured “it’s just what everyone does.” I think a better response is, “thank you—I don’t celebrate Christmas, but I hope you have a merry one.” If saying “He is risen indeed” works for you, great, but it’s not right to expect people of minority faiths (or no faith) to go along with the majority just because it’s a holiday. Christmas, of course, has plenty of non-Christians who celebrate, so that’s an issue too. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/56 "2013-04-01T15:46:55Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I would also like brownie points for not throwing away a religious tract that I recently encountered in a bathroom stall at a rest stop. 🙂 _looks at username_ ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/57 "2013-04-01T16:10:46Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > I wasn’t feeling arrogant at the start of this thread, but by now I’m feeling quite a bit of pity for my poor American cousins who feel they have to hide away their rationality like it’s a dirty secret. But I don’t know whether that’s ‘atheist arrogance’ or just good old ‘British arrogance’. As an American cousin, I have to say that I’ve recently come to understand and to envy the freedom that you have to express yours. I was watching an old episode of “Cracker” in which he talks at some length about his lack of faith at his father’s funeral while eulogizing him. I was somewhat shocked. It’s hard to imagine any American show depicting something like that, and harder still to imagine someone in real life saying something like that without the audience gasping. I suppose at a parent’s funeral, you might get away with it, because you’re clearly in despair and not thinking correctly. Or you’re just angry at god at that moment. As for the OP, I too would very much like some concrete examples of how one identifies an arrogant atheist. I don’t describe myself as one, but it would be more helpful to be able to say whether or not I do things like those that an arrogant atheist does. Without such examples, I can only compare myself to how other people express their religious beliefs. For instance, I’ve never gone to someone else’s door to try to convince them to no believe in any gods. I have made a point of saying “gesundheit” to people when they sneeze rather that “bless you,” but I’ve never said “be healthy despite the fact there is no god” to anyone. I’ve never argued to anyone that they should or should not do something on the basis of the absence of gods. I’ve never presumed that other people similarly share my lack of belief in god when I speak with them, and relatedly have not infused my general conversation with people with phrases and terms to communicate a presumed shared lack of belief. I’ve never asked a group of people to bow their heads and join with me in a joint, shared expression of a lack of belief in gods. So, again without being given some specific examples, in comparison to how I perceive many people to express particular religious beliefs, I am very, very unassuming rather than arrogant. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/58 "2013-04-01T16:15:14Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > If so I have not met any of them. To be fair I don’t know many atheists so it’s a small sample. Do you consider believers who end every sentence with “God loves you” arrogant? How about ones coming to your door? Atheists don’t spend millions of dollars sending people out to convert the heathen - where heathen is often defined as followers of another branch of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/59 "2013-04-01T16:43:51Z")
I can’t imagine anything more arrogant than the attempt to supplant venerable cultural beliefs and practices with one’s own vacillating variety of dogma all around the neighborhood and globe. Well, maybe the insistence that everyone in the country regardless of religious belief consecrate Christian holidays, idolize Biblical commandments by mounting them in public buildings and printing them on currency, dismissing other religious practices by labeling them “pagan”, intruding upon the sanctity of other’s homes including those marked “no trespassing/no soliciting” in order to pedal a certain variety of dogma, hand waving away medical technology and the skill and experience of medical professionals by claiming “miracle”, attempting to control others with blue laws, enforcing orders which prohibit birth control and safe sex, and encouraging explosive population growth in impoverished third world countries which clearly do not have the resources to provide food, medical care, or _hope_ to the millions of children born helpless and susceptible to disease, famine, and war. What could possibly be more arrogant than padding the numbers of the church with the names of children born for the sole purpose of being baptized; children born to die? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/60 "2013-04-01T16:46:07Z")
I’d like to ask the non-arrogant atheists in this thread how you might handle this situation. I was leaving work on Friday and was passing by the security guard. SG: Have a nice weekend. Me: OK, you too. SG: Are you going to church this weekend? Me: I don’t think so. SG: Why not? Me: I don’t go to church. SG: You don’t have a relationship with God? Me: No. SG: Why not? Me: Umm… I, uh… I have to catch my bus. SG: OK. But I’d like to talk to you about this sometime. The reason I hemmed and hawed is because I really didn’t want to get drawn into a conversation about religion with someone who (from past conversations) is pretty devout. And I really did need to catch my bus. If he corners me, which I suspect he will do sometime this week, what would you say in my place? I think my response might be that it’s a personal matter to me and I don’t like to discuss it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=4)