# Are there atheists who are not really arrogant? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475 "2013-03-31T23:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/121 "2013-04-02T16:04:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > False equivalency, as my atheism does not not command me to annoy others with my beliefs. For this reason, the fraction of atheists that impose their beliefs on others is smaller than the fraction of christians who do the same thing. Do you have a dollar on you? How arrogant is it that my money falsely asserts something about what I believe. Equivalent my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/122 "2013-04-02T16:13:05Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Do you have a dollar on you? How arrogant is it that my money falsely asserts something about what I believe. > > Equivalent my ass. [And on that subject…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=687004) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/123 "2013-04-02T16:53:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, it just means that your chances of being exposed to one of the atheist variety are damn slim compared to being exposed to one of the religious variety, so it would be expected that the religious ones would be more annoying overall than the atheists ones, right? That’s a demographics issue. On the SDMB, for example, I’m much more likely to be annoyed by a proselytizing atheist than a theist. The same holds true for many parts of my community, since I live in a liberal town and hang out with very liberal people. Yes, there are less atheists than theists. That doesn’t mean that atheists are somehow less capable of producing assholes than theists are. Dealing with assholes is part of the human condition - not a side effect of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/124 "2013-04-02T17:19:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Yes, there are less atheists than theists. That doesn’t mean that atheists are somehow less capable of producing assholes than theists are. I think think the judgement on what constitutes “assholish” behaviour always feels a a little lopsided to me with the religious getting a free pass for any number of discriminatory beliefs merely because they can be justified by reference to sacred books. An atheist calling them out on it would be seen as the asshole rather than the religious person believing or, even worse, acting on said belief. The Emperor’s new clothes was mentioned previously and there is some truth in that. Religion may think, say and do what it likes and yet cry foul when challenged. Sorry, but I can’t go along with that. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/125 "2013-04-02T22:21:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > There are theists whose worldview does not allow for people who don’t believe what they believe. They make it a mission to denigrate, humiliate, objectify, and otherwise minimize the thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs of those whose belief systems don’t jive with theirs… Then there are theists who simply cannot comprehend that idea that anybody really doesn’t believe in gods. They think we’re just mad at God, or something negative happened that made us stop beliving, or we’re just misinformed. :rolleyes: Hollywood is especially prone to portraying atheists like that. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/126 "2013-04-02T22:46:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the _whole point_ of agnosticism is sucking up to the believers. It’s giving religion a special status not accorded to other beliefs; no one is “agnostic” about goblins or Santa Claus. Agnosticism is like going up to religious people and grovelling in a a show of submission before them; the agnostic is acknowledging the power and dominance of the believer. Of course they like it. Yep, this is what I meant about certainty bringing out the worst in humanity. Der Trihs isn’t even talking about people who disagree with him (her?) - he’s talking about people who dare to entertain the possibility that he might not be 100% right. That’s justification enough to come up with ways, however convoluted, in which they must be morally inferior. He’s 100% certain that he’s 100% right, so any deviation from 100% agreement must be a sign of lesserness. People like this (on either side of the debate, obviously - on here I’ve read about 100%-certain Christians who, in spite of the evidence of their own eyes, refuse to believe that atheists can have strong moral belief systems and deep integrity) are why I try to hold onto a filament of doubt about a lot of things, religious and other - even if I have very strong opinions - as long as they haven’t been conclusively proven one way or another. It just seems like such an easy leap from certainty to this, and the thought of ending up like this gives me the heebie-jeebies. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/127 "2013-04-02T23:16:11Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Then one day she had her son (or possibly grandson) with her. He was about 6 or 7. Same routine. I told her I didn’t want her any pamphlets & refused to take one. Then the little boy asked “But mister don’t you want God to love you?” while she smilled. To which I responed “No”. The baffled little boy asked why, to which I responed “Because he isn’t real, he’s made up like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy”. 😃 He started crying his eyes out, she looked at my like I’d just sprouted horns, and I never saw set foot in the store again. > > Was any thing _I_ did “rude” or “arrogant”? What about any thing did? Or the boy for that matter? Honestly? I’d say you acted like a complete asshole. And if you can’t understand _why_, I’m not even going to bother explaining it. I don’t think atheists (or theists) are arrogant. It’s just that the arrogant ones are always the ones you remember. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/128 "2013-04-02T23:22:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Honestly? I’d say you acted like a complete asshole. And if you can’t understand _why_, I’m not even going to bother explaining it. Did you read his whole story? He was being harrassed at work, and his workplace was turning a blind eye. After numerous provocations, he answered the questions he was asked honestly. How is that being an asshole? Sure, if he answered snidely or sarcastically, or with in a deliberate effort to discomfit the child. Any of that would be consistent with the story, and may have happened. But given only what he says here, I don’t see how he was being an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/129 "2013-04-02T23:25:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > False equivalency, as my atheism does not not command me to annoy others with my beliefs. For this reason, the fraction of atheists that impose their beliefs on others is smaller than the fraction of christians who do the same thing. Cite? Of the people I personally know who are atheists ( a handful that are open about it to me): 3 “Quiet” atheists (one pro-life which is interested) 1 atheist who would made disparaging comments about anyone who goes to church, “believes in that that bullshit”, etc. 1 loud and obnoxious one who could be **Der Trihs** in meatspace. So 20% ratio there (which is NOT a cite - I was just trying to think about the people I know). Personally, I would guess that there is a the same number of assholes in every grouping out there. A few parents coaching kids soccer (5% rule is my rule of thumb for volunteer sports), a few from a given faith or lack thereof, a few in a faculty meeting, a few at the office (though we fire them), etc. Given that most people don’t know about my faith unless they try to get me to do something on a Sunday morning, or they join my family for a holiday dinner (which 4/5 of the list above have done, and have been quietly polite while we had a prayer), I don’t know how you evaluate the number of loud, pushy Christians vs the number of loud, pushy atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/130 "2013-04-02T23:26:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Then one day she had her son (or possibly grandson) with her. He was about 6 or 7. Same routine. I told her I didn’t want her any pamphlets & refused to take one. Then the little boy asked “But mister don’t you want God to love you?” while she smilled. To which I responed “No”. The baffled little boy asked why, to which I responed “Because he isn’t real, he’s made up like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy”. 😃 He started crying his eyes out, she looked at my like I’d just sprouted horns, and I never saw set foot in the store again. > > Was any thing _I_ did “rude” or “arrogant”? What about any thing did? Or the boy for that matter? If that actually happened the way you described it, you were a total cunt. If the people **Bijou Drains** has met acted like _you_, it’s no wonder he thinks all atheists are assholes. > [@Algher](#): > > Cite? > > Of the people I personally know who are atheists ( a handful that are open about it to me): > > 3 “Quiet” atheists (one pro-life which is interested) > 1 atheist who would made disparaging comments about anyone who goes to church, “believes in that that bullshit”, etc. > 1 loud and obnoxious one who could be **Der Trihs** in meatspace. > > So 20% ratio there (which is NOT a cite - I was just trying to think about the people I know). Personally, I would guess that there is a the same number of assholes in every grouping out there. A few parents coaching kids soccer (5% rule is my rule of thumb for volunteer sports), a few from a given faith or lack thereof, a few in a faculty meeting, a few at the office (though we fire them), etc. 20% of the people you \*know \*are atheists. Which means 100% of the ones you _don’t know_ are atheists would fit into your “quiet” category. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/131 "2013-04-02T23:36:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Honestly? I’d say you acted like a complete asshole. And if you can’t understand _why_, I’m not even going to bother explaining it. > > I don’t think atheists (or theists) are arrogant. It’s just that the arrogant ones are always the ones you remember. So, when I was a little Jewish boy should I have been protected from people proclaiming that Jesus is the savior and anyone not believing will fry in hell? That’s a bit worse than what **alphaboi867** , don’t you think? It is telling about the intellectual weakness of religious belief that the slightest word against it is considered as arrogant, and that the religious are just shocked when someone disagrees. Why did this woman put the boy in the middle when he clearly was not interested? A JW, dragging a little girl, finally arrived at my door. I engaged her in a polite discussion about evolution. Should I have not done this because a little girl was dragged into it? **alphaboi867** gave an honest answer to an honest question. You clearly think he should lie or evade it to keep the kid from knowing that not everyone believes the same thing. Well, the hell with that. Is it really any different from someone objecting to a gay person acting normally with someone he loves despite the fact that their are children around? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/132 "2013-04-02T23:38:26Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > 1 loud and obnoxious one who could be **Der Trihs** in meatspace. I have never seen **Der Trihs** get in in anyone’s face who was not already flogging imaginary deities. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/133 "2013-04-02T23:42:49Z")
A total cunt? What label would you give all the people who will attempt to brainwash my child with terrors of the devil and hell, with false promises of a heavenly eternal life, nonsense about angels and “the power of prayer”? What would you call those people who spread lies, bad science and worse history, false hope, and propaganda like a disease? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/134 "2013-04-02T23:52:02Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > A total cunt? What label would you give all the people who will attempt to brainwash my child with terrors of the devil and hell, with false promises of a heavenly eternal life, nonsense about angels and “the power of prayer”? What would you call those people who spread lies, bad science and worse history, false hope, and propaganda like a disease? Not only that, but it is common for them to set up kids events where the brainwashed ones are invited to bring their heathen friends. It is advertised as games and snacks - but of course they try to indoctrinate the little kids while they are at it. If atheists did something like this the believers would have a total cow. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/135 "2013-04-02T23:56:09Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > A total cunt? What label would you give all the people who will attempt to brainwash my child with terrors of the devil and hell, with false promises of a heavenly eternal life, nonsense about angels and “the power of prayer”? What would you call those people who spread lies, bad science and worse history, false hope, and propaganda like a disease? If one of them told a young child that they were going to burn in hell because they didn’t believe in God and caused the young child to run away in tears, I would also call them a total cunt. **Guinastasia** is completely correct. There is something wrong with you if you don’t understand why taking pleasure in making a child run away crying is fucked up. Especially with the bragging tone in which he said it. Like being an asshole to a child is going to score you brownie points with other atheists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/136 "2013-04-03T00:01:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have never seen **Der Trihs** get in in anyone’s face who was not already flogging imaginary deities. I am a bit stunned to learn that DT is in the closet IRL. > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > The asshole atheists are like the asshole christians, they just tend to stand out more. There isn’t a living atheist anywhere near the level of asshole of Fred Phelps, or even Pat Robertson. Unless Donald Trump is a secret atheist. But he’s not an ass about atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/137 "2013-04-03T00:06:20Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > If one of them told a young child that they were going to burn in hell because they didn’t believe in God and caused the young child to run away in tears, I would also call them a total cunt. And you think that isn’t a common occurance in the Bible Belt? It’s a constant threat to any non-church going kid, any kid of other faiths, even Catholic kids are treated to a litany of hellfires and damnations for “worshipping saints” instead of the correct gods. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/138 "2013-04-03T00:09:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not only that, but it is common for them to set up kids events where the brainwashed ones are invited to bring their heathen friends. It is advertised as games and snacks - but of course they try to indoctrinate the little kids while they are at it. > If atheists did something like this the believers would have a total cow. I been there. Lock-ins, Hellhouses, and bowling/swimming/softball events where heathen kids were pounced on and shamed, scared, and bribed to join a church. Mostly scared, though. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/139 "2013-04-03T00:09:55Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I am not an atheist, nor a Christian, but I do disagree here. What you’re saying is that you should go along with the prevailing culture just to be polite. It’s not being a jerk to refuse to be bullied into participating, even if the bullying is a good-natured “it’s just what everyone does.” I think a better response is, “thank you—I don’t celebrate Christmas, but I hope you have a merry one.” If saying “He is risen indeed” works for you, great, but it’s not right to expect people of minority faiths (or no faith) to go along with the majority just because it’s a holiday. Why bother explaining? You say “Thank you,” and go on with your life. Society is made up of people who play along because there’s no skin off their asses if they do. Feeling a need to explain yourself over the slightest fucking thing like that is arrogant in that you assume they really give a shit what you believe. > [@tdn](#): > > I’d like to ask the non-arrogant atheists in this thread how you might handle this situation. “I’m sorry, but I believe it’s not appropriate to discuss religion in the workplace.” If he has half a brain (which is not given) he’ll figure out that he had crossed an invisible line and not pursue it. If he has a bit more brain he might recognize the magic words “not appropriate” and “workplace,” put two and two together, and realize you could have him in HR in about half a minute if you choose to. And if he’s too stupid to get it, well, I was raised to not be cruel to the afflicted. > [@shiftless](#): > > Where are these arrogant atheists I hear so much about? I can turn on the TV any day of the week and see men claiming to actually converse with an all powerful being who personally gives them instructions to pass on to others. When I drive down the rode every day I pass dozens of buildings staffed by other men and women making the same claim. I’m not making this stuff up. THAT is arrogance of the highest order. It would be interesting indeed to meet an atheist who could rise to that level of arrogance. You can tell the atheists: they aren’t dressed as well. Or at least as expensively. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have never seen **Der Trihs** get in in anyone’s face who was not already flogging imaginary deities. Yep, though his definition of “flogging” is looser than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/140 "2013-04-03T00:12:52Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > I been there. Lock-ins, Hellhouses, and bowling/swimming/softball events where heathen kids were pounced on and shamed, scared, and bribed to join a church. Mostly scared, though. How many of these events were you subjected to? Why did your parents keep sending you to them? I never had a single experience like this, but if I had my parents would have completely flipped out. The most unwanted religion I was exposed to was the vague Christian overtones of the Cub Scouts, which in my pack was more or less limited to the “god and my country” part of the motto. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=8)